established legal guard position but too close to an opponent without the ball?

[christianH]

Hi guys,

this question came up in my last game.

A1 is running fast to catch a long pass coming from behind him.

As he looks over his shoulders and just before catching the pass B1 stands in his path and very close to him, say 30inches away.

A1 cannot see B1 as he is looking back now.

A1 finally catches the pass and as he turns to face forward he runs into B1 who was standing in his path. Contact occurs in the torso.

Please guys what is your call

Many thanks

chris

[bas2456]

I don't have my books on me, but I think there is a time/distance requirement here...two strides maybe?

Help anyone?

[Adam]

From the sounds of your play, it seems like a player control (offensive foul). Once A1 catches the pass, time and distance become irrelevant. If, however, A1 crashes into B1 before catching the ball, then time and distance matter and A1 must be given one or two steps from the time B1 establishes position.

The question is, essentially, is this a screening play or a guarding play?
The answer is determined by whether A1 has the ball when contact is made.

[justacoach]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

From the sounds of your play, it seems like a player control (offensive foul).

OP specified that A1 caught the ball prior to contact, ergo PC foul as no time or distance is required (neither is LGP assuming B1 was stationary).
Hope noone got hurt on the play!

[Adam]

Originally Posted by justacoach

OP specified that A1 caught the ball prior to contact, ergo PC foul as no time or distance is required (neither is LGP assuming B1 was stationary).
Hope noone got hurt on the play!

Yep, and while LGP may be irrelevant, it was gained (assuming B1 is facing A1), so certain movements would be allowed here (jumping vertically, for example).

[christianH]

Many thanks for your replies guys.

Couldn't we consider the fact that B1 didn't respect elements of time and distance when establishing LGP so actually what we have here is an illegal guard position?

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by justacoach

Hope noone got hurt on the play!

Why? What did Herman ever do to you?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by christianH

Many thanks for your replies guys.

Couldn't we consider the fact that B1 didn't respect elements of time and distance when establishing LGP so actually what we have here is an illegal guard position?

Nope, because once A1 catches the ball, time and distance don't matter.

Originally Posted by Rule 4-24-4a

No time or distance is required to obtain an initial legal position.

Now, if B1 never faced A1, you could make the argument that he needs to meet the screening requirements for time and distance.

[M&M Guy]

christianH, just a quick question - what rule set is this? NFHS, NCAA, or FIBA?

The reason I ask is the answers being supplied are based on NFHS and NCAA rules, and there is a chance FIBA might be different.

[Adam]

Thanks, M&M, I kept forgetting to add that caveat. I have to assume he's officiating FIBA rules based on his signature, I just forgot to note that. You're my hero.

[APG]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

christianH, just a quick question - what rule set is this? NFHS, NCAA, or FIBA?

The reason I ask is the answers being supplied are based on NFHS and NCAA rules, and there is a chance FIBA might be different.

Time and distance do not apply to a player with the ball as well in FIBA.

33.4 Guarding a player who controls the ball
When guarding a player who controls (is holding or dribbling) the ball, the elements of time and distance do not apply. The player with the ball must expect to be guarded and must be prepared to stop or change his direction whenever an opponent takes an initial legal guarding position in front of him, even if this is done within a fraction of a second.

[M&M Guy]

Well, there you go. Thanks APG.

It was nice to be someone's hero, even if it was only for a short moment.

[Adam]

But it was a shining moment, my friend.

[christianH]

Thanks guys

yes I am under FIBA.

I ref in local league in the countryside of England.

England is a country near Wales.

A1 apparently had a mild injury in his nose and unfortunately we cannot do anything about it under either FIBA or NCAA rules to prevent this kind of accidents

[Adam]

Tell A1 to look where he's going.
Tell A2 not to throw the pass into traffic like that.
Tell A3, A4, and A5 to call out the defender to A1. "LOOK OUT!"

It's no more dangerous than a blind screen that doesn't get called out by teammates of the defender.