30 seconds to replace DQ'd player

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
If they wanna stay in the huddle after the sub is beckoned in,you might be now getting into the "resuming play" rule,though,instead of a T.

I side with Adam on this. The whole point of this thread is that when a player fouls out, it is NOT a time-out. Therefore, the resumption of play procedure isn't an option. Get on the floor, or get whacked. Not that I'd be quite that hasty to enforce it, but that is the correct way to administer it, I think.

Chuck

[MN 3 Sport Ref]

FED 10.5.1B states that as soon as the sub reports to the table play will resume immediately as provided in 7.5.1. I do not have my NC2A rule book along so I cannot support that. However, due to the interpretation in the FED casebook I tend to lean towards JR on going to resuming play and not whacking the coach for not breaking the huddle.

[Adam]

Actually, if we're looking at a non-shooting foul (and a throw-in), I'd agree that we just let the team put the ball in play. Warn the coach that we're going to play, and hand the ball to the thrower. Should be an easy layup for A if they're paying attention.
If we're looking at free throws, give the ball to the shooter and call a T on B for not having players in the proper slots. It's not a timeout, so RPP doesn't come into effect.

Adam

[MN 3 Sport Ref]

Originally posted by Snaqwells
Actually, if we're looking at a non-shooting foul (and a throw-in), I'd agree that we just let the team put the ball in play. Warn the coach that we're going to play, and hand the ball to the thrower. Should be an easy layup for A if they're paying attention.
If we're looking at free throws, give the ball to the shooter and call a T on B for not having players in the proper slots. It's not a timeout, so RPP doesn't come into effect.

Adam

If we let team A put the ball in play we are using resuming play procedures 7.5.1. If we imm. whack during a FT we are not 8.1.1. So how can we use RPP on one sitch and not the other. That is what we are hammering at here is this an extension of RPP or not....

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

I side with Adam on this. The whole point of this thread is that when a player fouls out, it is NOT a time-out. Therefore, the resumption of play procedure isn't an option. Get on the floor, or get whacked. Not that I'd be quite that hasty to enforce it, but that is the correct way to administer it, I think.

Chuck

Don't agree.The players should be on the floor to start with,not off the floor-i.e. they should be gathered near the boundary(CB play 10.5.1SitB).If they want to stay there,you then simply follow the rules similar to what you would do after a violation-(1)If they're throwing the ball in,you put the ball on the floor and start the 5 second count if they don't make someone available to throw the ball in(CB 7.5.2SitA)(2)If they're on defense,just give the ball to the other team for their throw-in(3)If it's during a FT,there's rules governing each team also.

There's nothing in the book that says you can T a team immediately,if they do stay by their bench after their sub is beckoned in.

[Adam]

Originally posted by MN 3 Sport Ref
If we let team A put the ball in play we are using resuming play procedures 7.5.1. If we imm. whack during a FT we are not 8.1.1. So how can we use RPP on one sitch and not the other. That is what we are hammering at here is this an extension of RPP or not.... [/B]

Okay, here's my rationale.
Situation A. B1 fouls out on a PC foul. No shots, ball OOB for A. Coach immediately sends B6 to the table to replace B1, then summons his kids for a huddle. Players still on the floor, coach just thinks he still gets to use the 30 seconds. I'd give him a quick warning, "Coach, let's go." Wait a couple seconds. If no movement. Blow the whistle and hand the ball to A1.
Players are on the court, so RPP isn't necessary, IMO. If anything, T the coach for being on the court (if he is) or standing (if there's a seatbelt in effect). I wouldn't take it that far, since it would only aggravate the situation. If he howls, tell him we can discuss it later if he wishes.

Situation B. Same as above, but B1 fouls out on a shooting foul. A1 gets free throws.
Line up for the free throws, and give the ball to A1. If B isn't in position, I've got a T.

Adam

[Adam]

I should add that if there are free throws, I'd loudly request B players for the blocks before I give the free throw to A1. If they're not running towards the hoop pretty shortly, I give A1 the ball and call it from there.

[MN 3 Sport Ref]

Originally posted by Snaqwells

Okay, here's my rationale.
Situation A. B1 fouls out on a PC foul. No shots, ball OOB for A. Coach immediately sends B6 to the table to replace B1, then summons his kids for a huddle. Players still on the floor, coach just thinks he still gets to use the 30 seconds. I'd give him a quick warning, "Coach, let's go." Wait a couple seconds. If no movement. Blow the whistle and hand the ball to A1.
Players are on the court, so RPP isn't necessary, IMO. If anything, T the coach for being on the court (if he is) or standing (if there's a seatbelt in effect). I wouldn't take it that far, since it would only aggravate the situation. If he howls, tell him we can discuss it later if he wishes.



Situation B. Same as above, but B1 fouls out on a shooting foul. A1 gets free throws.
Line up for the free throws, and give the ball to A1. If B isn't in position, I've got a T.

Adam [/B]

Look at what I just said above. You are using RPP on one sitch (baseline throw-in) and not the other (FT) you can't have it both ways. Here is the way I look at it. Although this is not calssified as a timeout, it is a stoppage of play with a timed replacement period. Does this fall under RPP or not. You say no since the sub has reported and all five players are on the court. Why then would you have a T for not occupying the low blocks and not a delayed violation as you would normally have???

[APHP]

I A1 fouls out. After coach is notified he takes 25-seconds talking to the sub he is sending in. The sub reports to the table before the 30-seconds is up. The throw-in following this foul is at the division line opposite the table. Question::will you blow your whistle to resume play. If so, then you are saying it is a resumng play procedure (i.e. following a timeout, intermission or unusual delay)..if you don't blow your whistle, then you are saying it is not a resuming play procedure....and just put ball on floor and go. I repeat the question--will you blow your whistle before beginning play???

[rockyroad]

We all agree that once the sub reports and is beckoned on, we are ready to play...rather than argue "should we T them or use RPP", how about we use some common sense and game management and walk right into the huddle and say "Coach, this isn't a time-out. Let's go right now." They'll get there pretty quick...

[MN 3 Sport Ref]

Great rationalle rocky, one which is easy to use. As we often do on this forum however we are discussing the rules basis behind our actions not what we would actually would or would not do on the court...

As far as blowing the whistle, how many times have we all blew the whistle when strictly we were not supposed to or vise versa. Use of the whistle is not good enough IMO as a basis for RPP or not.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Snaqwells
[/B]

Situation B. Same as above, but B1 fouls out on a shooting foul. A1 gets free throws.
Line up for the free throws, and give the ball to A1. If B isn't in position, I've got a T.
[/B][/QUOTE]Agree with you up to here,Adam.This is where I agree with MN3.If B doesn't fill the bottom slots,it's a violation as per Rule 9-1-2.If B continues to NOT fill the bottom slots,you then go to the T under R10-1-5(b).

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by rockyroad
We all agree that once the sub reports and is beckoned on, we are ready to play...rather than argue "should we T them or use RPP", how about we use some common sense and game management and walk right into the huddle and say "Coach, this isn't a time-out. Let's go right now." They'll get there pretty quick...

Of course we're gonna do that,Rocky.We're just arguing the hypothetical,correct-by-the-book way to call it.

[Adam]

Originally posted by rockyroad
We all agree that once the sub reports and is beckoned on, we are ready to play...rather than argue "should we T them or use RPP", how about we use some common sense and game management and walk right into the huddle and say "Coach, this isn't a time-out. Let's go right now." They'll get there pretty quick...

Okay, but can I whack 'im if he does it again?

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Don't agree.The players should be on the floor to start with,not off the floor-i.e. they should be gathered near the boundary(CB play 10.5.1SitB).If they want to stay there,you then simply follow the rules similar to what you would do after a violation

Good point. Just play the game. If they all want to defend their bench instead of their basket, so be it. I can go with that.

Chuck