Raging official Head butts player

[Dan_ref]

Geeze...head butt to the mouth? Probably aiming for the nose - as Chuck said you don't want to bang your forehead on someone's front teeth. That said...the average human will not have the presence of mind (there's that word again) to throw a punch after losing his two front teeth...most likely will go to his knees with his hands on his face.

Good story though.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by TXMATTHEW05
That's rather arrogant, wouldn't you say, JT?

All I referee is a jrNBA league. Does that make you better than me? Just because you have a paper card that says you're able to referee, does that make you more able to call the game?

Maybe this guy has too important of a job to dedicate evenings of the week towards officiating, and he figured he'd make a few extra dollars on the side on a Saturday.

It's very pompous of you to assume that just because he doesn't belong to a state association, that he's just a regular volunteer dad. Take yourself off the pedestal.

I would also like to have you know that a partner of mine called D2 equivelant basketball in Germany - and he now just calls the jrNBA league. My, my...has he SUNK so LOW as to do a REC game? God Forbid!

Just because you are a referee, does not mean you have to follow any code of ethics or follow any standards to put a whistle in your mouth. If you think it does, I will show you several leagues around me that has guys "doing it for the money" all over.

Peace

[onejewlia]

Thank you for your responses to my questions..... I do understand the grief that the fans and players give the officials. I felt as though this ref has gone too far. Although the players teeth were knocked out during the game I see him on a regular basis at different leagues throughout the city. from my understanding he has been playing in city,county and y leagues for the past ten years without any problems.It is also my understanding that the referee is very hot-headed and arrogant.... as far as his state license that Im not sure of I do know that he is wel known throughout the city from refereeing a variety of leagues. My concern is not only for the victim in this situation but for other that may encounter this ref in other games.....

[rockyroad]

It sure seems that something of this magnitude would have made it into a newspaper someplace. Do you have any links that you could give us that we could read?? I would like to hear some more about this situation if possible...

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by onejewlia
ALL the information was given, I was a spectator at the game and attend basketball games on a regular basis.

Julia, I mean no offense, so I hope these comments aren't taken the wrong way. But as I said before, there is very clearly more to this story. While your account gives the basic facts (a technical foul was called, a player was headbutted), not "ALL" the information was given. You said that the player

began speaking with his other teammate about the incident. At that time the referee heard him speaking on the call and called a second technical foul and told him to leave the gym. The player was very upset at this time but remained in control. he did tell the referee no and became very vocal.

So we have the player talking to a teammate, which earned him another technical foul. Clearly he wasn't saying anything very complimentary to the official. Then the player "became very vocal" toward the referee. I'm sure he wasn't telling the ref how slim he looked in his stripes. After that, the player goes to complain to the site director. What the heck is he saying during this whole time?

My point Julia is that there is a big difference between a player saying, "Ref, I never touched him!" and a player cursing or insulting the official or directing racial slurs toward him, or whatever. I have no idea if any of those things were said. But you haven't given us ALL the information. That was all I meant. There has to be more to this story than a kid got mad and a ref headbutted him. There just has to be. Almost nobody headbutts another person violently without some severe provocation. So for this ref to act that way, I'm just wondering what (if any) provocation was given.

Very respectfully,

Chuck

[Adam]

Also, what was the kid doing saying "No" to a ref who had just ejected him from the gym? Regardless of whether the T was justified, the player needs to leave the gym as instructed. It's out of his hands. Fairness has nothing to do with it now.

[BlackFox40]

The officials lost control of the game (period) inexcusable.
As for rules and regulations and code of ethics and oath (one way or another pertains to everyone in the gym) All of the above have been broken and all is to pay the consequences.

[Blackhawk357]

These two postsers make very good points.

Originally posted by Snaqwells
Also, what was the kid doing saying "No" to a ref who had just ejected him from the gym? Regardless of whether the T was justified, the player needs to leave the gym as instructed.

and

Originally posted by BlackFox40

The officials lost control of the game (period) inexcusable.
As for rules and regulations and code of ethics and oath (one way or another pertains to everyone in the gym) All of the above have been broken and all is to pay the consequences.

I would assume that there will be consequences for both player and more-so, the official. No official, licensed or not, should go to that extreme, except maybe to defend himself against a physical attack. In lieu of that and, of course, not knowing the entire set of circumstances, if it had been one of my officials there would be a court order before there were any more games for him. Weather there was any verbal provocation or not, an action like that needs to be dealt with through law enforcement and the judicial system.

I also agree with Chuck's thought, that seems to be, in my words (I don't want to put words in your mouth, so correct me if I'm wrong) ~ You can't condemn officiating as a whole for the actions of one man, especially if he is not a licensed official. JMHO


Blackhawk

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

I have decided to jump into this fray concerning codes of ethics.

I think that we can all agree that there are many youth and adult recreational leagues all over the country that use officials that are not certified in some manner. Certified meaning registered with the StateHSAA, a member of IAABO (such as in manner states in the NE part of the USA or parts of Canada), member of a LOA (as in California), or one could be a FIBA official (if we are speaking of an official from another country).

I coach our nine year old son's 10U basketball team in a Toledo Park and Rec. league where a good percentage of officials are not OhioHSAA registered officials; that means these officials have no training as basketball officials nor knowledge of the rules and mechanics of officiating (and their officiating shows it). To make matters even worse, that Table Officials are hired through a temporary employment agency (meaning that many of them could not hold a job at McDonald's) and these people have absolutely no training to do the job as Scorer or Timer and their performance at the games show it.

The game officials, whether OhioHSAA or not, receive $20 per game. This is the fifth year that I have watched our sons play in games sponsored by the Toledo P/R and I can count on one hand the number of officials who gave a professional account of themselves. And I have to sit there and keep my thoughts to myself.

Where is this post going, you ask? Sports officiating is a profession masquarading as advocation, no matter whether one is officiating jr. H.S. games or Div. I games. When one accepts money to officiate, that person is expected to perform at a certain minimum level of competency. A code of ethics spells out the type of conduct that is required of a sports official (or engineer, there are many readers out there who have read my $100 postings concerning professionalism).

A code of ethics for a profession gives the practioners of that profession quidelines on how to conduct themselves. There are times when a situation arises that is out of the norm and a code of ethics helps one navigate through these abnormal situations.

[tharbert]

I'm wondering first what message you have for us officials Jewlia. While I was reading the initial post, I thought it belonged on a police blotter rather than a forum on officiating.

When the violence started, the referee was not being a referee, he was being a thug. I hope the cops were called. I wouldn't have hesitated dialing 911 and letting the cops sort this out.

Jewlia, this has nothing to do with code of ethics or rules of the game. This is men behaving badly.

$90 fine plus court costs, 3 months probation, 30 days of community service!

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by tharbert

$90 fine plus court costs, 3 months probation, 30 days of community service!

Reminds me of the Monty Python skit where a man is brought before the magistrate. Before the charge is even read, the judge sentences the man to be hanged by the neck until dead. When told that the charge is just illegal parking, the judge says, "Oh. Ten pound fine then."

[PGCougar]

Seems to me that there are already rules and codes governing this behavior - namely the civil and criminal codes of NY. I don't think you'll find the answer here because whatever occured wasn't related to the game once the agression manifested itself into an assault.

Also seems to me that the forum where facts, questions and answers pertaining to this incident ought to be entertained is the courtroom, not here.

Phil

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Sports officiating is a profession masquarading as advocation.

Grrrrrrr!! This is false, Mark! Every once in a while you make this statement and it's just false. For 95% (or more) of officials, officiating is not a profession; any more than raking leaves is a profession for the teenager who does it on weekends to make extra money. It's a silly claim, and I don't understand why you keep making it. Can it become a profession for a very few who are able to make their living at it? Yes. And if this is all you mean, then fine, I agree with you. But does that mean it's my profession? Obviously not.

Saying that officiating is a profession masquarading as an avocation is the same as saying that volunteers who are picking up trash in the park are part of the garbage collection profession. It's just silly.

When one accepts money to officiate, that person is expected to perform at a certain minimum level of competency.

True, but that hardly qualifies it to be one's profession.

We've been through this before http://www.officialforum.com/showthr...?threadid=4933 Also, http://www.officialforum.com/showthr...?threadid=2881

Chuck

[Edited by ChuckElias on Mar 27th, 2003 at 08:56 AM]

[JRutledge]

I actually agree with both of you. Officiating is a profession masquerading as a vocation, but it depends on the level that you are doing it. The rec. official or YMCA official is not on the same level as the officials that has a license or does D3 College or Junior College ball. The rec. officials or YMCA officials could have literally walked off the street and put on a shirt and put the whistle in their mouth. But the official that has a license or went throught some kind of qualification process is acting much more like someone that is working towards a job. Now it might not be their only job, but it is much like a job. I do not know about anyone here, I have to make commitments far in advance and if I have to break them or find myself in a conflict, it can be more nerve racking than not going into work with a boss I see everyday. If it is not a job for me and many others, I have to file taxes on it, make schedules and stick to them, and attend meetings quite frequently. If that is not a profession, I do not know what is.

Peace

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by JRutledge
Officiating is a profession masquerading as a vocation

Um. . . huh?