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-   -   Throw-in spot (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/77426-throw-spot.html)

Camron Rust Wed Aug 10, 2011 04:55pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCHSAA (Post 779603)
Nearest the spot where the violation occurred.
And for a shot clock violation, exactly where does the violation occur? The location of the shooter, the rim, or the ball?

bob jenkins Wed Aug 10, 2011 06:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 779604)
And for a shot clock violation, exactly where does the violation occur? The location of the shooter, the rim, or the ball?
I seem to recall that there's a case indicating the inbounds spot is the endline. That said, it's too early for me to get out my books and look myself.

NCHSAA Wed Aug 10, 2011 07:52pm
Thought I would throw this in: The shot-clock horn does not stop play unless recognized by an official’s whistle.

Say a player attempts a three point field goal from half court, and the shot clock horn sounds in mid flight. We wait to see if the ball hits the basket, or goes in. If it doesn't, does it make sense to give the ball to the other team at half court?

So I say this situation should be handled with a throw in on the baseline. As the violation occurred when the ball did not hit the basket, or go in. Therefore nearest the spot would be the baseline.

BktBallRef Wed Aug 10, 2011 08:59pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCHSAA (Post 779643)
Thought I would throw this in: The shot-clock horn does not stop play unless recognized by an official’s whistle.

Say a player attempts a three point field goal from half court, and the shot clock horn sounds in mid flight. We wait to see if the ball hits the basket, or goes in. If it doesn't, does it make sense to give the ball to the other team at half court?

So I say this situation should be handled with a throw in on the baseline. As the violation occurred when the ball did not hit the basket, or go in. Therefore nearest the spot would be the baseline.
I believe esteemed members disagree.

NCHSAA Wed Aug 10, 2011 09:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BktBallRef (Post 779658)
I believe esteemed members disagree.
How? I thought about it so hard! :mad: Obviously not hard enough. He$# it sounded alright to me. Oh by the way, who is considered esteemed? I have always wanted to ask

Scrapper1 Wed Aug 10, 2011 09:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by NCHSAA (Post 779660)
How? I thought about it so hard! :mad: Obviously not hard enough.
Think about this question: Where is the ball located when the violation occurs?

NCHSAA Wed Aug 10, 2011 09:40pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrapper1 (Post 779665)
Think about this question: Where is the ball located when the violation occurs?
Physically at the basket, technically at the location of the shooter?

tref Thu Aug 11, 2011 09:56am
Anybody have a case play? I'm more confused now than when I originally asked the question :confused:

bob jenkins Thu Aug 11, 2011 10:02am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scrapper1 (Post 779665)
Think about this question: Where is the ball located when the violation occurs?
Does that matter? (I think the throw in is at the spot of the violation, not the ball location at the time of the violation, but I don't have my books here.)

The violation is not for "failing to release a shot" but for "the ball not hitting the ring". So, the spot of the violation is the ring.

Camron Rust Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 779815)
Does that matter? (I think the throw in is at the spot of the violation, not the ball location at the time of the violation, but I don't have my books here.)

The violation is not for "failing to release a shot" but for "the ball not hitting the ring". So, the spot of the violation is the ring.
I'm not sure that is correct.

What if the defense had deflected the ball into the backcourt such that the ball was in the backcourt paint. It doesn't seem correct that you'd make the throwin spot 75' from the location of the ball.

The violation is for failing to release the shot such that it subsequently hits the rim.

I think the logical place for the violation is the location of the ball....not the rim.

Note, this is a logical POV, I've not investigated the actual rule yet.

APG Thu Aug 11, 2011 12:30pm
Backcourt heave with a second on the shot clock...ball fails to hit the rim. I'd venture to say that 999/1000 officials have the throw-in spot on the endline rather than in the backcourt.

This may be a case where it may be technically correct to put it where the shooter shot it (and I'm not convinced of even that) but by practice, you're wrong.

Raymond Thu Aug 11, 2011 01:28pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer (Post 779871)
Backcourt heave with a second on the shot clock...ball fails to hit the rim. I'd venture to say that 999/1000 officials have the throw-in spot on the endline rather than in the backcourt.

This may be a case where it may be technically correct to put it where the shooter shot it (and I'm not convinced of even that) but by practice, you're wrong.
Which was my point earlier. I've never had a game where it was brought back to the spot of the shot. It's always whistled dead once the ball hits the ground or someone catches it.

Which takes us to the next part of this discussion. I've heard some philosophize not to blow it dead if the defense catches the ball. So we know anybody who believes in that philosophy doesn't consider the violation to have occurred while the ball is still in flight.

bob jenkins Thu Aug 11, 2011 02:03pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 779867)
I'm not sure that is correct.

What if the defense had deflected the ball into the backcourt such that the ball was in the backcourt paint. It doesn't seem correct that you'd make the throwin spot 75' from the location of the ball.

The violation is for failing to release the shot such that it subsequently hits the rim.

I think the logical place for the violation is the location of the ball....not the rim.

Note, this is a logical POV, I've not investigated the actual rule yet.
there are two ways to violate -- fail to release the ball on a try and fail to have the ball hit the rim. Your backcourt play is the first, so the inbounds spot is in the (old) backcourt. The try-horn-miss scenario is the second, and that's not a violation until the ball misses the rim, so that's the spot of the violation.

Camron Rust Thu Aug 11, 2011 02:03pm
In my searching for info, I came across the following for FIBA (highlighting mine)...

http://www.theeboa.com/tools/2010-20...renceChart.pdf
Shot Clock
24 seconds.
Ball must be released prior to sounding of horn and subsequently hit rim.
NEW: On a throw in – clock starts as soon as any player touches or is touched by the ball on the court.
If horn sounds – don’t blow whistle and wait to see what happens = if shot doesn’t hit rim or go in, or defense gets immediate control, no whistle, play continues.
Throw in for a shot clock violation is nearest to the spot where the shot was taken.
Shot clock is reset or sounds in error – official may correct it. If sounds in error, try to ignore the horn as long as neither team placed at a disadvantage.

There are a couple of statements that related to what we're discussing here. Sure, its FIBA, but I felt it still worth mentioning since FIBA has been making moves to be more like the various US rules.

Camron Rust Thu Aug 11, 2011 02:07pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by bob jenkins (Post 779898)
there are two ways to violate -- fail to release the ball on a try and fail to have the ball hit the rim. Your backcourt play is the first, so the inbounds spot is in the (old) backcourt. The try-horn-miss scenario is the second, and that's not a violation until the ball misses the rim, so that's the spot of the violation.
I don't see it as two ways to violate....it is one compound way.

A team just has to release a try that hits the rim. If they never release the try, they've certainly not released a try that hit the rim.


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