whaddya got?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Seems to me the ball was dead when A1 jumped into B1, so a good no call. I know you didn't ask, but...
Also, it may work for you most times, but I'd still avoid such contact in the future. Maybe a pat on the back when the situation isn't so tense, but never on the "rump." Too much risk for too little benefit.

If the player was attempting a try when fouled, then the ball wasn't dead.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by zeedonk

A1 gets ball in post and turns and attempts shot. B1 grabs Q2 arm-tweet! As I hit whistle A1regroups and jumps into B2 (pretty much all happened in a quick second or two- htbt).

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

If the player was attempting a try when fouled, then the ball wasn't dead.

It is my impression that in the OP the ball was never released. If this is the case, when A1 "regrouped," it indicates to me that the original attempt had ended.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Nevadaref

If the player was attempting a try when fouled, then the ball wasn't dead.

It was after he returned to the floor with the ball and THEN jumped into the defender.

To the OP: I agree with Snaqs. I'm not touching players intentionally in this kind of situation. Warding off a minor collision is one thing, and I'd apologize if I bumped someone.

If his profanity was that loud, he didn't leave you much choice, but you might be able to avoid this kind of situation in future.

[zeedonk]

I am not a "talker" or a "toucher", far from it. I don't go out of my way to explain, talk or inject myself into much on the court. I will talk to a player or a coach if the initial inquiry is pretty calm and mostly respectable.

I understand the Forum's general aversion to touching players and coaches (this is overly broad, I know). The general averison is to prevent a worst case scenario of instigating or in extreme cases, assault and possible litigation.

Having said that, it appears to me that this is being made out to be so much more than it is. If I give a kid a tap on the shoulder, back or behind to get him to come to the spot where he needs to be for a throw in, I see no problem with that. To me, it's better than saying "Over here" 2-3 times while he's trying to listen to me, teammates and coaches setting up a play (and yes, I will let him get all his instructions before putting the ball on the ground and counting).

It also seems to me that this mindset is more of a concern for not insulting or offending someone who is overreacting to a call in the first place and thus doubly overreacting to being touched, period. We do need to be concerned with not overstepping personal boundaries, but I feel that unless we are too touchy and grabby, it is not an issue.

I would agree with those who might suggest that a problem with "too much" touching is a larger societal issue, but I am not letting a kid yell at me to get my hands off him.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by zeedonk

Having said that, it appears to me that this is being made out to be so much more than it is. If I give a kid a tap on the shoulder, back or behind to get him to come to the spot where he needs to be for a throw in, I see no problem with that. To me, it's better than saying "Over here" 2-3 times while he's trying to listen to me, teammates and coaches setting up a play (and yes, I will let him get all his instructions before putting the ball on the ground and counting).

I agree completely with your points (not quoted) about the kid overreacting. But I would encourage you to look at the definition of assault: in most states, it includes unwanted physical contact (sometimes called "offensive touching"). Your defense of "keeping the game moving" is not a sound legal defense against an allegation of assault, an allegation which all by itself might end your officiating career.

Perhaps you live in a region where you know all of the players and their families, or where people are not at all litigious, or where such touching is the norm. I know that I would never try it around here.

I don't care if I have to say "over here" 5 times: the game won't start until I put the ball in play.

[SAK]

I have a personal rule about touching a player; avoid when possible. However to keep a player from running in to me I may end up touching a player. In this case it is obvious that I this is not something I want to do but something that I need to do for my own protection on the court.

So far as the Ts, I think that you brought this on yourself and now have drawn more attention to the action. By giving the first T you gave the player, although ill advised, an opportunity to say something. What he said needed to be addressed but if you put yourself in this situation...

Take it for what its worth but I would continue to avoid touching players when possible and never touch a player in an area covered by a bathing suit as it looks bad and is inappropriate. I know that I even hate it when a player gives me a pat on the "rump" while saying "nice call ref."

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by SAK

I have a personal rule about touching a player; avoid when possible. However to keep a player from running in to me I may end up touching a player. In this case it is obvious that I this is not something I want to do but something that I need to do for my own protection on the court.

There's clearly a difference between touching a player and being contacted by a player.

[SAK]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

There's clearly a difference between touching a player and being contacted by a player.

I realize this but to avoid a player from running into me I may extend my arms and contact the player.

[zeedonk]

Originally Posted by SAK

I know that I even hate it when a player gives me a pat on the "rump" while saying "nice call ref."

Excellent point- I am not too fond of that either, especially when I think it's a smart assed response...
While I very seldom do that, I think I'll work on NOT doing it at all...