Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 777039)

I have never read that a defender must establish LGP before a shooter begins his shooting motion. I have always thought it must be established before A1 gets airborne. I've been wrong all these years? If so I would really appreciate a word-for-word citation so I can stand corrected.

Here is the college rule, I guess HS rules are different in regards to airborne shooters :confused:

Rule 4-35:
Art. 4. To establish an initial legal guarding position on the player with the
ball:
a. The guard shall have both feet touching the playing court. When the guard jumps into position initially, both feet must return to the playing court after the jump, for the guard to attain a guarding position.
b. The guard’s torso shall face the opponent.
c. No time and distance shall be required.
d. When the opponent with the ball is airborne, the guard shall have attained legal position before the opponent left the playing court.Exception: (Men) Rule 4-35.7

Art. 5. To establish legal guarding position on a player without the ball:
a. Time and distance shall be required to attain an initial legal position;
b. The guard shall give the opponent the time and distance to avoid
contact;
c. The distance given by the opponent of the player without the ball need not be more than two strides; and
d. When the opponent is airborne, the guard shall have attained legal position before the opponent left the playing court.

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 777039)

I have never read that a defender must establish LGP before a shooter begins his shooting motion. I have always thought it must be established before A1 gets airborne. I've been wrong all these years? If so I would really appreciate a word-for-word citation so I can stand corrected.

Here is the college rule, I guess HS rules are different in regards to airborne shooters :confused:

Rule 4-35:
Art. 4. To establish an initial legal guarding position on the player with the
ball:
a. The guard shall have both feet touching the playing court. When the guard jumps into position initially, both feet must return to the playing court after the jump, for the guard to attain a guarding position.
b. The guard’s torso shall face the opponent.
c. No time and distance shall be required.
d. When the opponent with the ball is airborne, the guard shall have attained legal position before the opponent left the playing court.Exception: (Men) Rule 4-35.7

Art. 5. To establish legal guarding position on a player without the ball:
a. Time and distance shall be required to attain an initial legal position;
b. The guard shall give the opponent the time and distance to avoid
contact;
c. The distance given by the opponent of the player without the ball need not be more than two strides; and
d. When the opponent is airborne, the guard shall have attained legal position before the opponent left the playing court.

Originally Posted by NoFear2020 (Post 777399)

Thanks for the college rule,
d. [B]When the opponent with the ball is airborne, the guard shall have attained legal position before the opponent left the playing court.

I am not Interpreting this as an airborne shooter, for airborne shooter i will use rule 4-71

The criteria for when a shoot begins (rule 4-71-3) and as you have already posted guarding (4-35) are clear to me.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 777404)

Finally, NoFear, you should consider this situation:

A1 gathers his dribble on the run, in the air. He lands on his left foot and jumps, landing on both feet (legal jump stop). B1 sets up between the landing spot and the basket, right before A1 changes direction and jumps directly into B1's chest (knocking both players to the floor).

Your philosophy and interp would have you calling a block on this play, and you would be the only official I've ever met who'd call it that way.

Originally Posted by NoFear2020 (Post 777407)

This what the video is almost showing.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 777403)

That's your problem. Stop interpreting the rule and just read the d@mned thing. When the shot begins only matters if there is a defensive foul during the interval beginning at the start of the shot and ending with the release of the shot. Determining whether it's a foul is done separately, this rule does not help in that issue; it's only purpose is to determine whether a shot should count when a foul is called.

Finally, you really should listen to the experienced officials on here. The combined officiating experience of the officials who have told you you're wrong on here exceeds the combined ages of your graduating high school class. If you don't believe us, take your ridiculous interpretation and philosophy to the local association leadership.

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 777398)

This guy is a troll. In his very first post he said he was working a NCAA Division 2 basketball game.

Now he doesn't know that LGP must be obtained prior to the offensive player going airborne.

Being as he was supposedly working a D2 game my rules citation should apply to him yet he is ignoring it.



So my verdict is that he is a TROLL.

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee (Post 777377)

I'm pretty sure that BM is being sarcastic.

Originally Posted by NoFear2020 (Post 777482)

Real big of you to resort to name calling.:mad:

I do less than a dozen D2 games a year probably not enough to claim D2 status:eek:, I will remove this from my profile.:(

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 777403)

your graduating high school class

Originally Posted by NoFear2020 (Post 777480)

So i read this [B]d. When the opponent with the ball is airborne, the guard shall have attained legal position before the opponent left the playing court. and my problem is i do not infer airborne shooter, but you want my to infer that it does:confused:?