Transition

[tref]

Well IMO those are just bad basic fundamentals tomegun. We should position adjust to obtain/maintain open looks. We move to improve by using "2 & 2" to achieve this as T.

[JRutledge]

Go where you need to go to officiate the play or players. This is not a one size fits all answer anyway. Sometimes you are behind, sometimes you were with them. It really depends on what is happening with the ball and how much pressure is in the backcourt. Do not over complicate this.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by tref

Well IMO those are just bad basic fundamentals tomegun. We should position adjust to obtain/maintain open looks. We move to improve by using "2 & 2" to achieve this as T.

Cliche much?

[Nevadaref]

Originally Posted by tomegun

I'm confused because you started out asking a question and have now taken a position, both on the court and in this discussion. You can do what is best for you, but I'm not going to make it a habit of beating the largest pack of players down the court.

It seems like your discussion at camp focused on how the official looked more than what position the officials were in. There are probably an infinite number of plays you can look at where each of the three are in position to see some of the plays, but at the same time are stacked on others.

Since I live in Vegas I will say the odds are the L has two players, the T has two players and the C has six. That being the case - without scientific evidence at all - do you think you are going to get stacked with those six? Not a trick question, looking for your opinion.

What if there is a block charge on the far sideline, at the division line, and the C was looking good and hustled down to the free throw line extended? Again, looking for your opinion.

As a basketball official, hustle mean nothing to me. Getting into the best position to make accurate calls means everything. That means sometimes we will walk, sometimes we will sprint and sometimes we will stand still. Think about it, an evaluator can tell you that you ran yourself into a bad (stacked) position when you are hustling, but not when you are in the best position.

YMMV

I agree 100% with tomegun.
(I can also tell you that he is one of the top instructors in the Vegas area.)
The key is to get an angle to see the play. That means that you adjust to the players. I see this idea as similar to the home positions which are taught in 3-person. You come down the court with getting to your home position as your target, but you aren't locked into that spot. You must be willing to adjust from it or if you need to go somewhere else for a good reason, then you go there.

[bob jenkins]

So now I'm back and my position is what the others have said. THe "pack" is a fairly large area. I'm (ingeneral) not right in the middle of it. I'm toward the back, but not trailing it. :shrug:

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by tref

Well IMO those are just bad basic fundamentals tomegun. We should position adjust to obtain/maintain open looks. We move to improve by using "2 & 2" to achieve this as T.

Really? A1, because of pressure from B1, throws a 20ft pass to the division line, along the Trail's sideline, to A2 who immediately turns and crashes with B2.

You're saying the Trail should have morphed up court to see the play?

Do you think a Center official who ran up ahead of the pack will now be able to look back through the pack to see the crash?

[ontheway]

if everyone in the rotation is on top of things the three man transition mechanics cover the court well enough if you use your brain and get good angles while your getting down the court a "crash" will be officiated.................................im not directing this at badnews just everyone MYSELF included

[APG]

Originally Posted by ontheway

if everyone in the rotation is on top of things the three man transition mechanics cover the court well enough if you use your brain and get good angles while your getting down the court a "crash" will be officiated.................................im not directing this at badnews just everyone MYSELF included

I don't even know what this is suppose to mean as it relates to the thread...

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

I don't even know what this is suppose to mean as it relates to the thread...

I am glad it was not just me.

Peace

[ontheway]

in transition the L, the C, and the T all have a certain spot they are supposed be in correct?

[APG]

Originally Posted by ontheway

in transition the L, the C, and the T all have a certain spot they are supposed be in correct?

Correct...the discussion in this thread is where should the C should be located in relation to the players. Tref has heard three different philosophies from different sources (all relating to the level of which the different sources work at) and is wondering our opinions as to which one is best in our opinion.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Really? A1, because of pressure from B1, throws a 20ft pass to the division line, along the Trail's sideline, to A2 who immediately turns and crashes with B2.

You're saying the Trail should have morphed up court to see the play?

Do you think a Center official who ran up ahead of the pack will now be able to look back through the pack to see the crash?

Right. Or A2 catches the ball right near the division line and (perhaps) steps over it or passes the ball to someone who is coming from BC, or in the air coming from FC .... That call is the centers.

Maybe another way to put it. C needs to be in a position to work 2-man with L on a long pass and breakout, and work 2-man with T on any sort of press or pressure during the transition. And, be able to go from one to the other in short order.

[tref]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Really? A1, because of pressure from B1, throws a 20ft pass to the division line, along the Trail's sideline, to A2 who immediately turns and crashes with B2.

You're saying the Trail should have morphed up court to see the play?

Do you think a Center official who ran up ahead of the pack will now be able to look back through the pack to see the crash?

Okay, okay you changed the scenario on me, now its block/charge on an outlet pass.
I did lead off with no absolutes or always...

Of course we have to have a feel for what may happen "next" & be in position to make the call. Reading a step ahead is what I try to accomplish.

In the new sitch, when A1 gets possession I'm side stepping a couple times in the slot as I read the play. I'm NEVER said A gets the rebound & I'm gone like a L. I see the pressure by B1 then I'm looking to the bench for a t/o & I'm most definitely gonna notice A2 curling back to the division line for an outlet pass. 8 players headed north & 2 players in reverse is a red-flag for me.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by tref

...
3. Not only showed hustle & athleticism but it follows the L principles of refereeing back, being in position to accept the play & there were more open looks through the pack.
...

My problem with this is how often does a C "receive a play"? The Lead does because he has plays to the basket and secondary defenders. The C is supposed to be getting angles to see between players and looking for competitive matchup.

Also, #3 is from the NBA guys for a reason. They have a 24-second shot clock and rarely any backcourt pressure to deal with. The ball gets inside the 3-point line a lot faster in the Pro game than it does in college or HS ball. So #3 doesn't really apply to the amateur game, IMO (unless you have an old school UNLV/LMU game going on).

[tref]

Makes sense BNR!

And there you have it folks, I guess its best to be versatile in the slot, sometimes this & other times that.

Thanks to all for playing!