Lane Marked space violations.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Partner be wrong. If they both moved out of their lanes at the same time,it is a simultaneous violation.

Yeah, but if the defense really did move first in the switching process, then the partner is right. Penalize the first only. If they're truly simultaneous, then double violation.

Chuck

[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by SMcQueen
If A1's shot has passed the rim and B1 enters the lane then A1 has violated and B gets ball OOB.

4-20-3 The free throw ends when the try is successful, when it is certain the try will not be successful, when the try touches the floor or any player, or when the ball becomes dead.

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
The ball being above the rim doesn't mean a thing.
[/B]

While it seems that SMcQueen is a bit confused and I believe incorrect in most of his post, the part that I have quoted above is entirely correct. He is saying that if the shot has fallen short and is below the ring level when B1 enters the lane, then A1 violated first and that the correct call is to only charge A1 with a violation and give the ball OOB to Team B. This is because the free throw ended before B1 entered the lane, and therefore, B1 cannot commit a violation after the ball is already dead.
JR's quote has thus been shown to be incorrect as it does matter where the ball is when B1 enters the lane. A truly alert official must know the ball's location when B1 steps into the lane in order to determine which player violated first.
Although, it is true that most officials, that I see, do not call this the correct way.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Nevadaref

While it seems that SMcQueen is a bit confused and I believe incorrect in most of his post, the part that I have quoted above is entirely correct.
JR's quote has thus been shown to be incorrect as it does matter where the ball is when B1 enters the lane. [/B]

Sigh! Kinda left out the key sentence,didn't you,Nevada?That's awful creative editing on your part,just to try and prove that my statement was wrong.

Now,read the WHOLE thing again.The ball is above the rim most of the distance the FT has to travel to reach the backboard or rim.It is a violation for B1 to step in before the ball hits the backboard or rim,or it is certain that it will be no good.I didn't mention the ball being below the rim at all in my statement,so you can throw that part of the equation out.The statement that I made was therefore correct,and I stand by it.

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Jan 21st, 2003 at 03:08 AM]

[Nevadaref]

Hey, I was only being nitpicky with you, in the same way you were nitpicking the words of ScottParks. I thought that you would adopt the same attitude that he did when you pointed out that his choice of words was not the best.
Nothing vindictive was intended. IMHO you are correct on this board far more than you are mistaken.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Nevadaref
IMHO you are correct on this board far more than you are mistaken.

If only that were true on the court!

Chuck

[Edited by ChuckElias on Jan 21st, 2003 at 08:43 AM]

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

If only that were true on the court!
Chuck

Is being correct 53% of the time on the court considered far more?If it does,then you're wrong too,BOSOXBOY!

PS-

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Is being correct 53% of the time on the court considered far more?

No, but I would've taken that percentage last night. Sigh.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

No, but I would've taken that percentage last night. Sigh.

Bullpucky,Chucky!

You may have missed a call or two.Everybody does.You're too good an official to have missed any more than that.Never beat yourself up when the ballplayers are going gonzo on ya(which is probably what happened).When you get get into games like that,you just keep the animals under control-that's all.

Now,repeat after me- "I'm good enough,I'm smart enough,and...."

[rockyroad]

Brownpop time!!! Brownpop time!!! BoSox boy buys the first round!!!

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
You may have missed a call or two.Everybody does.

You know how we always say "Count the players". . .?

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

You know how we always say "Count the players". . .?

oopsie! Now ya gotta spill the beans...wha happened???
It will be theropu...thrapu...therapeud...ahhh... it will
help. Think of us as a big bunch of Dr Phils! Without the
expertise...or the compassion...or the ratings....group hug!

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

You know how we always say "Count the players". . .?

You know how we always say "sh*t happens"?

What makes you think that you're any different than me,or any other official? "Whoop-de-damn-do",in the words of that immortal philosopher-Derek Coleman.It's nice to try to be perfect,but you ain't gonna make it,and neither is any other official on this planet.Doesn't stop us from trying,though.That's the main thing. JMO,Chuck.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Dan_ref
oopsie! Now ya gotta spill the beans...wha happened???

Originally posted by JR
"Whoop-de-damn-do",in the words of that immortal philosopher-Derek Coleman.It's nice to try to be perfect,but you ain't gonna make it

I know I'm not perfect, but this was really totally my fault and only happened b/c I made another mistake previous to it. Sigh.

A1 is dribbling upcourt. As A1 steps over midcourt, he brings his non-dribbling hand up towards the ball to catch the ball and then pass. Well, he changes his mind at the last instant, and continues his dribble. I, however, expected him to end the dribble and blew the whistle, intending to call a double dribble. Screw-up #1.

Ok, ok. Inadvertant whistle. Horn sounds. My bad, everybody. Team B sub runs on. Sorry. Blue ball. Trying to hide my screw-up #1, I quickly hand the ball to A1 who inbounds it, when half the gym starts yelling "They've got six!!" Screw-up #2.

My partner and I felt we had no choice but to issue the T. If we hadn't, we would have just compounded the situation into something even worse! The ONLY saving grace is that my mistake didn't affect the outcome of the game. I do not generally curse, but our post-game evaluation was not printable.

The Team B coach proved himself to be a class act. He asked me about whether the sub had been waved in (he had been), but then let it go. After the game, I saw him on the way out of the locker room and told him exactly what I've just written. He accepted it graciously. It probably helped that his team won the game, but he still could've been a jerk about it.

Chuck

[Jurassic Referee]

Chuck,we're imperfect people trying to do a perfect job.You know you screwed up.Your partner should know that he screwed up just as bad,too,by not helping out.That one's just as much his fault as yours.You learn from it,and hopefully it doesn't happen again.

One screw-up does not a bad official make.If it did,there'd be nobody left to do the games.There isn't a GOOD official in any sport that isn't bothered when they miss something or make a mistake.There isn't any official in any sport that doesn't miss something or make a mistake occasionally.Even the great ones!

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Jan 21st, 2003 at 01:08 PM]

[Hawks Coach]

Not clear why you had no choice but to issue a T Chuck. Obviously, if ball is live with 6 on the court, it is normally a T. But if you made it live too quickly, because B1 had just legally entered court and you gave B2 no chance to get off, you should have a quick whistle, give B a chance to make it right, and continue on. I think this is the flipside of your inadvertent whistle - and inadvertent live ball

It is not proper to T up B in this situation. Perhaps you meant to say that you shouldn't have T'd them up, but that isn't clear from my reading of your post.