NCAA POI for a T and Error

[Nevadaref]

Not being an NCAA official I am a bit unclear on these two plays. Could those of you who work NCAA enlighten me on the POI rules for these plays.
1. Monday night Notre Dame v. Pitt game: Near the end of the game Pitt's Brandin Knight has the ball in his backcourt. He is fouled by a ND player, who is reaching in for the ball. After the foul is called, Knight uses his arm to shove the ND player away and charged with a T.
The officials had Knight shoot two free throws with the lane cleared due to ND having more than 10 team fouls, and then allowed ND to shoot the two technical foul shots. After this ND was given the ball at the division line. Is this correct?
Or should ND have shot two for the T and then continue the game from the POI, which would be Knight shooting two and continue as normal.
2. Wed. Duke v. Georgetown game: 1:57 to play in the first half. Duke player is fouled and it is double bonus. He misses the first and Georgetown grabs the rebound, the officials mistakenly allow play to continue and Georgetown moves the ball up to near half court before an official blows a whistle and stops play. The failure to award the second merited free throw is obviously a correctable error, but I question how they handled it. They put the time back on the clock and then simply lined the players back up and shot the second free throw, which was missed and Georgetown got the rebound.
Under NFHS rules no time should be put back, the lane should be cleared, and Georgetown should be awarded the ball near the division line after the free throw, whether it is made or missed, since there was a change of possession and that was the POI. Is this the case in the NCAA too? If so the officials gave Duke a chance at an offensive rebound that they shouldn't have had and messed up the game clock.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Nevadaref
Not being an NCAA official I am a bit unclear on these two plays. Could those of you who work NCAA enlighten me on the POI rules for these plays.
1. Monday night Notre Dame v. Pitt game: Near the end of the game Pitt's Brandin Knight has the ball in his backcourt. He is fouled by a ND player, who is reaching in for the ball. After the foul is called, Knight uses his arm to shove the ND player away and charged with a T.
The officials had Knight shoot two free throws with the lane cleared due to ND having more than 10 team fouls, and then allowed ND to shoot the two technical foul shots. After this ND was given the ball at the division line. Is this correct?
Or should ND have shot two for the T and then continue the game from the POI, which would be Knight shooting two and continue as normal.

Dead ball contact the offended team gets 2 shots & the ball (intentional T).

2. Wed. Duke v. Georgetown game: 1:57 to play in the first half. Duke player is fouled and it is double bonus. He misses the first and Georgetown grabs the rebound, the officials mistakenly allow play to continue and Georgetown moves the ball up to near half court before an official blows a whistle and stops play. The failure to award the second merited free throw is obviously a correctable error, but I question how they handled it. They put the time back on the clock and then simply lined the players back up and shot the second free throw, which was missed and Georgetown got the rebound.
Under NFHS rules no time should be put back, the lane should be cleared, and Georgetown should be awarded the ball near the division line after the free throw, whether it is made or missed, since there was a change of possession and that was the POI. Is this the case in the NCAA too? If so the officials gave Duke a chance at an offensive rebound that they shouldn't have had and messed up the game clock.

Could be the officials were showing off their holiday presents?

[Mark Dexter]

Methinks Dan answered #1 just fine.

#2 - the officials blew this one dead pretty quickly - my guess is that the L signaled 2 shots, but the players went early anyways, and the timer started the clock. Here, you know that the play was not properly started after the first FT, so you could reset everything. If, however, it was indicated to all as a 1-and-1, then your situation would be correct.

What I want to know about last night's Duke game regarding T's is why one wasn't given on the dunk right before the first media timeout - the player pulled his body up so that it was nearly parallel with the rim!

[ChuckElias]

Dan is exactly right about #1.

As for #2, I could swear that I remember reading that the official can declare that a dead ball never became live, if circumstances warrant. I just looked thru rules 2 and 6 very quickly and couldn't find that comment.

But the fact is, the ball was dead when the FT was unsuccessful. Therefore, the rebound and pass and time that expired never happened. Reset the situation and shoot the 2nd FT.

chuck

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by ChuckElias


But the fact is, the ball was dead when the FT was unsuccessful. Therefore, the rebound and pass and time that expired never happened. Reset the situation and shoot the 2nd FT.

chuck

How is this consistent with AR 9?

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Dan_ref
How is this consistent with AR 9?

Hmmm, good point. I would say that AR 9 deals with a situation where the officials didn't realize the error was being made. But if I know that the ball is dead, but can't get to it before the brain-dead kid in the low block grabs it and outlets it, I'm fixing the situation (I think). Does that make sense?

In AR 9, the refs let it go until the other team scored a basket; so they clearly didn't realize their own mistake. Can't penalize the team for that. But if we realize it, and it's only their mistake, we should fix the players' (and timer's) mistake.

How's that? You buyin' it?

Chuck

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Hmmm, good point. I would say that AR 9 deals with a situation where the officials didn't realize the error was being made. But if I know that the ball is dead, but can't get to it before the brain-dead kid in the low block grabs it and outlets it, I'm fixing the situation (I think). Does that make sense?

In AR 9, the refs let it go until the other team scored a basket; so they clearly didn't realize their own mistake. Can't penalize the team for that. But if we realize it, and it's only their mistake, we should fix the players' (and timer's) mistake.

How's that? You buyin' it?

Chuck

Buyin' it? You don't have to sell me, you have to convince the coach...and since you're the guy with the presents I'm lettin' you do the talkin'!

I didn't see the game but the way I read it there was a reasonable time lag involved. Lots of gray area here and maybe the crew got an attaboy after the game but hard to see how they got it right per 2.10. But I'll agree that when you go to the coaches you should lead with "We realized it all along...it was their mistake" Just don't let the folks at the table hear you say that!

(And now I got a question to ask at my next meeting!)