how do you pre-game block/charge

ronny mulkey · #1 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 20, 2002, 12:47pm

I would be interested in your coments regarding your pre-game on block/charge situations. Specifically, dribbler begins beyond 3 point circle and contact occurs below free throw line extended. Whose primary call is it if dribbler begins in trail's primary and contact occurs on a layup? Contact occurs a little higher like a running jumper, but still below free throw line? What do we do on double whistles? What do we do if Partners have conflicting signals?

Ball is passed from outside 3 point circle and is caught below free throw line extended and contact occurs? Would like to incorporate some of your thoughts in a pre-game tonight.

Mulk

rockyroad · #2 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 20, 2002, 01:03pm

First, if it is a drive from my primary, then I am taking it to the hoop - all the way to the hoop...where the contact occurs is a secondary consideration in this case...that is part of my pre-game...secondly, the pass situation you described would probably be the L's call, as you (at Trail) should stay with the passer an extra split second to make sure he/she doesn't get fouled...lastly, pre-game what to do on double whistles. There is nothing wrong with having double whistles on any of the plays you described...the main thing to pre-game about is holding back on signalling anything right away...it's important to communicate with each other before you signal block or pc foul...make sure you are both calling the same thing, and if not, then make sure you have pre-gamed the concept of taking it all the way to the hoop so you can tell your partner "I've got this one" or "Take it, partner"...you do not want the infamous "blarge" call because both of you come out signalling different things...

JRutledge · #3 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 20, 2002, 01:18pm

Ultimately you will have to listen to your assignor or assignors for what is right or wrong on this issue. But you should for the most part revert back to whose primary the call was made in. And make eye contact. Everything else after that is subject difference in what might be done over the country. But usually you can revert to whose primary is, based on NF Mechanics. College sometimes has some very slight differences to this way of thinking.

Peace

ronny mulkey · #4 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 20, 2002, 01:21pm

Rocky,

Are you saying that a dribbler beginning above the free throw line extended will always be the trail or c's primary play no matter where contact occurs? So, the lead will always yield when you have 2 whistles on this play?

ronny mulkey · #5 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 20, 2002, 01:26pm

Rut,

If you see Rocky's reply, you will notice that his is entirely different than your's. In college, would your's be like Rocky's? Our high school crews will have a mixture of college (Womens) and high school officials.

Either way, my pre-game tonight should be????

ChuckElias · #6 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 20, 2002, 01:28pm

Ronny,

You're pre-game tonight should be whatever you and your partner(s) agree on. But I would suggest you follow rocky's guidelines.

Chuck

rockyroad · #7 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 20, 2002, 01:53pm

Quote:

Originally posted by ronny mulkey
Rocky,

Are you saying that a dribbler beginning above the free throw line extended will always be the trail or c's primary play no matter where contact occurs? So, the lead will always yield when you have 2 whistles on this play?

Yep...unless the C or T get blocked out or something and ask the L for help...and assuming that this is a drive to the hoop - not someone dribbling around the perimeter...

JRutledge · #8 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 20, 2002, 02:04pm

Quote:

Originally posted by ronny mulkey
Rut,

If you see Rocky's reply, you will notice that his is entirely different than your's. In college, would your's be like Rocky's? Our high school crews will have a mixture of college (Womens) and high school officials.

Either way, my pre-game tonight should be????

Usually in HS, we make it simple and revert to primary responsiblity.

In College Men's or Women's usually if A1 and B1 both started in your primary as a T or C, then you take them all the way to the hoop and if their is a call, it should be. But because of the level of officials at the HS level and the complexity of this situation, I usually try to stay away from those kind of absolutes at that level of game. Just a personal preference and what you have been taught. That is why I say listen to your assignor or evaluators, because this is a philosophy that is better decided way before you get to the pregame (which are doing now of course

). That is one of the reasons we are not saying the same thing, there are several philosophies on this based on 2 person and 3 person alone.

Peace

ronny mulkey · #9 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 20, 2002, 02:21pm

Rut,

You have identified the problem - a primarily high school established ref, an established Womens' college ref and another not so established Womens' college ref. The pre-game on block/charge should be????

Assume, the assignor is on this high school game but he does not want to dictate the how but rather discuss the how. Help him with this discussion.

JRutledge · #10 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 20, 2002, 02:44pm

Quote:

Originally posted by ronny mulkey
Rut,

You have identified the problem - a primarily high school established ref, an established Womens' college ref and another not so established Womens' college ref. The pre-game on block/charge should be????

Assume, the assignor is on this high school game but he does not want to dictate the how but rather discuss the how. Help him with this discussion.

You have to make that decision yourself. You will know much better what your partner's views are than I do. The simple answer is to revert back to your primary. But the reality is there is more to officiating and double whistles than one single philosophy. If I am not mistaken, you have also not told us whether you are doing a 2 Person or a 3 Person game. Because the differences go up greatly between the two mechanics. Because if you are doing a 3 Person game, if the play starts in the C's area, the C has it all the way to the basket. I guess in order to answer your question more accurately, you have to ask a much more specific question. But then again, there are many ideals one what is right and wrong here.

Peace

ronny mulkey · #11 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 20, 2002, 03:40pm

Rut,

I began this thread very specifically and the last thread not only told you how many but had a brief profile on all three. See beginning thread or beginning thread on the other board. However, you may have already answered it any way. Below free throw line extended on Trail and lead's side, you should yield to the lead? C will take everything on his side?

Conflicting signals if they occur?

JRutledge · #12 (**permalink**) Fri Dec 20, 2002, 04:14pm

Quote:

Originally posted by ronny mulkey

Conflicting signals if they occur?

I will not go into great detail, I answered this on the other board too.

But you can go with the Double Foul. The Casebook supports this with Play 4.19.7 SITUATION C.

The rest is up to you. If you can sell this, do it. If you cannot, try to clean it up the best way you know how. No matter what you do, you will not be looked in the best light. So try to avoid this with a good pregame.

Peace

Kelvin green · #13 (**permalink**) Sat Dec 21, 2002, 01:04pm

I agree that if it starts in your primary and goes to the basket it is your call. The main reason is that Lead is watching off ball (maybe watching 2-4 big guys in low post) and then at the last minute change focus and pick up a drive to basket. That would be guessing and not seeing the whole play.