Dribble/Fumble

[JLC]

Just looking for feedback here. I am not an official. I coach 9th grade boys, and in that process, attempt to teach them the rules. I buy rules and case book every year (and actually read them), and follow this board. Have learned a lot, and have good discussions with friends who are officials. Anyway, is there any "rule of thumb" on what you would consider a fumble v. a dribble? Seems this is an area that is really difficult, especially the case where a pass "bounces" off a player's hand(s) to the floor, he picks it up, then starts to dribble. Does the player have control if he seems to direct the pass to the floor? A lot of judgment involved I know. What do you look for in cases like this?? Thanks

[firedoc]

In general, my rule of thumb involves control. If the player does not seem to have control of the ball, meaning that he can't really cause the ball to do what he desires, then it is a fumble. When the ball strikes the foot and starts to get away from him/her, it is clearly a fumble. I agree with you that oftentimes it is a judgement on the part of the official, but that is the reason that the official is there. These "judgements" are not just guesses but are based on the thorough study of the rules of the game.

[devdog69]

4-15-4 Note 2:A player is not dribbling while slapping the ball..., when a pass rebounds from his/her hand. The player is not in control in these conditions.

That takes most of the judgement out of it for me, unless I just see something so obvious that I can't let it go, I am going to rule it a fumble and let them have a dribble.

[ScottParks]

Originally posted by devdog69
4-15-4 Note 2:A player is not dribbling while slapping the ball..., when a pass rebounds from his/her hand. The player is not in control in these conditions.

That takes most of the judgement out of it for me, unless I just see something so obvious that I can't let it go, I am going to rule it a fumble and let them have a dribble.

Of course, provided they haven't already used their dribble. In other words, you can fumble, dribble, fumble , but NOT dribble, fumble dribble if the ball came to rest in the hand at the end of the first fumble.

I think I got that right

[firedoc]

Correct! Fumble, Dribble, Fumble is OK. Dribble, Fumble, Drbble is a violation.

[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by firedoc
Correct! Fumble, Dribble, Fumble is OK. Dribble, Fumble, Drbble is a violation.

More technically: "Dribble, Fumble, Dribble" should not be confused with dribble, interuppted dribble, dribble which is legal. It is only a violation if they player obtains control again in a way that ends the first dribble.
Since a fumble 4-21 is defined as losing player control when the ball slips from the player's grasp, this is not possible if the player was dribbling.

So if we can have: dribble, interrupted dribble (see 4-15-5), dribble continues. In this case, the player must obtain control again by continuing the original dribble in order not to violate. If he picks up the ball after the interrupted dribble, then he must pass, shoot, hold it, call time-out, etc.


A player may not: dribble, lose control, obtain control again in a way which ends the dribble (ie grabbing the ball with two hands), then dribble again. This is a double dribble violation unless the ball touched another player while it was loose or a bat by the opponent caused the loss of control.

firedoc, do you see what I mean? Your terminology really implies that the player first dribbles, then ends this dribble (since he must be grasping the ball to fumble), now fumbles, controls the ball again, and unless the fumble touches another player or was caused by a bat by an opponent, it is always a double dribble violation if he dribbles again. I am merely pointing out that if the player never grasps the ball, dribble, loss of control, dribble is a good play.

[Edited by Nevadaref on Dec 20th, 2002 at 04:53 AM]