I may not be esteemed, but I've come to the same conclusion. And I apologize for the bandwidth I've wasted in the futile effort to help a baby official.

Oh, you're esteemed, all right. And never stop trying to help the baby officials either. But as soon as anyone like Randy shows that they absolutely refuse to even try to learn the basics, we might as well flush 'em. :) All we're doing is wasting our time and getting frustrated doing so.

Not "esteemed" but sometimes...it's it's just fun to "go along with it" even when you know it probably won't go anywhere. :D What happened to the new, kinder JR? ;)

That went down the crapper with Randy.

I honestly did try to explain some things to him. Some very basic things too. He didn't want to learn; he wanted to show us how smart he was instead. Unfortunately for him, he did just that.

Our avocation doesn't need the Randys of the world. We have enough problems now without people like him adding to 'em.

I kid I kid...

I can certainly see how this is frustrating...to me, it's just like the "yeah but" official who doesn't take advice from officials that have been doing this a lot longer then they have....especially on a rule that is crystal clear. I can't for the mind of me understand how someone in their second year of officiating can try and debate this much on matters such as philosophy, mechanics, and rules. Thirty years of playing rec ball and watching basketball just doesn't cut it. It literally took me three and half years of being here before I started feeling confident in helping others with rules, philosophy, etc, and even then, I'm real careful in what I type.

My only complaint is that your threshold is a little too high. :)

I think some of us have a lower cut-off level than others when it comes to dealing with the "yeah, but" guys like Randy. I admire both Snaqs and JR's attempts to work with the guy. I never even bothered to get involved with these discussions because I was through with the guy after reading his first three posts...maybe Jeff or BITS can get through to the guy, but I seriously doubt even they can.

It aint for everybody...

Breathing, that is.

If the frustrated among you would relax your attitudes, rid yourselves of the need to indoctrinate others, you would avoid all of that frustation. What's with the need to have others agree with you--"my way or the highway"? Why not just say it how you see it, and be fine if not everyone agrees?

Because words have meanings.

That, and it's not about getting someone to agree with us in some sort of "my way or the highway" crap. Again, the mantra of the yabut guy.
It's about explaining the basics of what makes a competent official above the middle school or rec league level.

If he wants to just guess at what contact is a foul or not, fine. If he wants to move up, then it might better serve him to actually figure out the logic and reasoning behind the decisions.

Or he can keep on keeping on.

I should have known when he offered the fan/coach/player catechism, "a foul is a foul."

Let me ask you, is the sky blue? Is water wet? Does man need oxygen to survive? Feel like everyone has been trying to indoctrinate me with the same answers.

Again, you're a second year official and you're arguing with a collection of those that have many many times the experience and knowledge of you? Thirty years of playing rec ball and watching basketball doesn't make you an expert on matters of officiating. If that were true, than all ex-NBA players would be NBA officials when the matter of the fact is there's only a handful.

Worked with a varsity assistant coach a while back. Since he was blowing my line & calling across the paint, I asked:
1. If he has a book.
2. If he planned on attending a camp or taking the test.

He said he played ball all his life plus he coaches, so "he's good to go." :rolleyes: