Also answered by you and Snaqs.....

I have no idea why he comes here. There was some very good points made in this thread by various posters. Unfortunately Randy doesn't seem to understand them and he also just refuses to believe anything that he's told. He surashell doesn't understand the nuances of this particular rule when we talk about them.

Im confused, which one is it?

Lots of funky stuff happens in competitive AAU varsity games.

That's what I was thinking.

When I first arrived at the forum several yrs ago, I asked a question about players hanging on the rim. Many dunks, I believe, end in players excessively hanging or holding on the rim (mostly at the college and NBA level).....and we're talking grasping and holding, swinging, nearly doing chin ups, etc., and they are very rarely called.

With experience, I learned not to be a plumber.

The play of which you speak, IMO, would happen very fast, and you would not be evaluated well, or move forward, by calling it.

You'll learn to let em go (or not).......I did.

I'm relying on a lifetime of spectating, here. Maybe the rule is different in college and/or pro? That is where I would have seen most of it. I come from the land of white. I don't have a problem accepting it. I just wasn't seeing the distinction as important, as long as no hanging was done or advantage gained by the initial grab, considering that the rules allow for grasping while dunking. This struck me as one of those situations where I thought at least some of you would argue there is no violation of the intent of the rules, because there is no advantage gained.

No advantage gained by a player grasping the rim with his free hand before dunking...ooookay then. :confused:

The first passage you quote me on is from my originally intended discussion of 10-3-4. Responses drifted from that, and we turned to 10-3-3, which is where we were in the second passage.

All during the downward dunking motion. As I said previously, no hanging, no propulsion, no prolonging. Where's the advantage?

Well, that's what I was thinking, but most of the responses, here, indicate they would not let them go.

My chances of playing in The League would've increased considerably, if that was legal :D

This play isn't legal at any level. The rule is the same under NCAA rules I believe. Under NBA rules, this would be an illegal assist in scoring violation...not a technical foul. The ball would be awarded to the defense at the free throw line extended.

Again I say, what you think you are viewing must not be what is happening. No official is going to allow a player to grasp the rim clearly with his off-hand and dunk the ball with the other hand...I promise you if I allowed this to happen in a game, the entire team on defense, the bench, the coach, the person at the snack bar getting popcorn...everyone would give me hell for this, because everyone knows you can't do this...the dunker would probably have a look on his face knowing he got away with one.

Haven't you yourself said you've only been officiating for at most two years? :confused: I'd be very careful in trying to determine what is and isn't the intent of the rules...the replies you get on the forum come from those that have been doing this a lot longer than you and I have. I would concentrate more on knowing the rules inside and out, mechanics, and how to properly enforce the rules.

Anyway, getting back to my topic: It sounds like some of you work in areas where at least some of the high school kids are capable of violating 10-3-4a. In an attempt to gather its frequency, has any of you ever actually called it?

Not very often...it's not even a call that happens at any level of play that often. Consider how many times you've seen this happen in NCAA/NBA games. Players pretty much know you can't do this. I've called it once and it was pretty blatant.

I'm not sure I'm being understood. I'm talking about what grunewar is talking about, and tref when he indicated it would be allowed because during a dunk, and Snaq when he seemed to make a distinction based on whether control of the ball was maintained. Some of you seem to be imagining moment being applied to the ring. I'm just talking about a simple grasp, nothing else--no affect whatever on the goal taking place by the hand with the ball doing the dunking.

That comports with my observations as a spectator.