Help

[Adam]

Originally Posted by grunewar

I've got the same problem..... Gapper had an issue with me quoting someone the other day and I told him I would try to avoid it in the future.....now, if I can only remember who it was.......

I really don't mind too much when it happens. If he starts asking intelligent questions and actually responding like a referee instead of a theologian, I can always adjust the list accordingly.

[RandyBrown]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I really don't mind too much when it happens. If he starts asking intelligent questions and actually responding like a referee instead of a theologian, I can always adjust the list accordingly.

Like that's going to happen.

[RandyBrown]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Not if the grasping was done while control of the ball had been lost.

And if a player uses the rim to make a dunk possible (prolonging air time, gaining extra height, etc), ring him up.

And the exception is listed in 4-6, Basket Interference, not 10-3. There is no exception for player technicals during a dunk.

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

Is this a serious question?

Which one, APG? tref did say control was lost, but what if it wasn't? What if, as Snaq seems to be picking up on (and tref in his subsequent post), A1 maintains control with one hand? Is he OK to go ahead and grab with the off-hand, followed by a grab with the dunking hand as he puts it through, as long as he hasn't prolonged or propelled, as Snaq points out?

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

He's getting quoted, which allows me to respond.

Not under my ruleset.

[APG]

Originally Posted by RandyBrown

Which one, APG? tref did say control was lost, but what if it wasn't? What if, as Snaq seems to be picking up on (and tref in his subsequent post), A1 maintains control with one hand? Is he OK to go ahead and grab with the off-hand, followed by a grab with the dunking hand as he puts it through, as long as he hasn't prolonged or propelled, as Snaq points out?

4-6-2
Exception: In Arts. 1 or 2, if a player has his/her hand hand legally in contact with the ball, it is not a violation if such contact with the ball continue after it enters the basket cylinder or if in such action, the player touche the basket. Dunking or stuffing is legal and is not basket interference.

The italicized part is my emphasis. In your play is A1's hand contacting the ball?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

4-6-2
Exception: In Arts. 1 or 2, if a player has his/her hand hand legally in contact with the ball, it is not a violation if such contact with the ball continue after it enters the basket cylinder or if in such action, the player touche the basket. Dunking or stuffing is legal and is not basket interference.

The initialized part is my emphasis. In your play is A1's hand contacting the ball?

Good point, the other important part is:
"is not basket interference." Behavior that is a technical foul without a dunk is not exempted because it happens during a dunk. The exception here is to the BI rule, not the TF rule.

[RandyBrown]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

4-6-2
Exception: In Arts. 1 or 2, if a player has his/her hand hand legally in contact with the ball, it is not a violation if such contact with the ball continue after it enters the basket cylinder or if in such action, the player touche the basket. Dunking or stuffing is legal and is not basket interference.

The initialized part is my emphasis. In your play is A1's hand contacting the ball?

I was focusing on 10-3-4, APG--disregard BI in regards to my comments. 10-3-3 kept creeping in, and when tref brought up the dunk situation, I found it interesting, and wondered about the implications as far as technicals go. If A1 goes up for either a one- or two-handed dunk, initially, and then uses only one hand to dunk, but before doing so, grasps the ring with the off-hand, maintains control with the other, do we have a T (assume the grasp was not for safety considerations, as Jurassic points out)?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by RandyBrown

Is he OK to go ahead and grab with the off-hand, followed by a grab with the dunking hand as he puts it through, as long as he hasn't prolonged or propelled, as Snaq points out?

Answered in post #41 of this thread.

This is exactly why you're constantly getting crapped on here. A question gets answered with corresponding rules citations. You refuse to believe the answer and then come up with all kinds of extraneous crap that have absolutely nothing to do with the discussion.

If you don't understand what is being discussed, you shouldn't be part of the discussion. It's that simple.

[RandyBrown]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Good point, the other important part is:
"is not basket interference." Behavior that is a technical foul without a dunk is not exempted because it happens during a dunk. The exception here is to the BI rule, not the TF rule.

Yes, but in this situation, both are at work, simultaneously, no?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

4-6-2
Exception: In Arts. 1 or 2, if a player has his/her hand hand legally in contact with the ball, it is not a violation if such contact with the ball continue after it enters the basket cylinder or if in such action, the player touche the basket. Dunking or stuffing is legal and is not basket interference.

The italicized part is my emphasis. In your play is A1's hand contacting the ball?

You never get this far. The ball is dead on the technical foul as soon as the player grabbed the ring with one hand before he dunked with his other hand.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by RandyBrown

Yes, but in this situation, both are at work, simultaneously, no?

No...and you again very obviously didn't understand what Snaqs just told you.

[APG]

Randy, your question has already been answered by JR. You are making this way too complicated. You can't grasp the rim save for the specific exceptions that have already been cited in the thread. I really don't understand what your confusion is. It's a pretty basic basket rule.

[RandyBrown]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Answered in post #41 of this thread.

This is exactly why you're constantly getting crapped on here. A question gets answered with corresponding rules citations. You refuse to believe the answer and then come up with all kinds of extraneous crap that have absolutely nothing to do with the discussion.

If you don't understand what is being discussed, you shouldn't be part of the discussion. It's that simple.

Perhaps, but I'm wondering if others have a different view, considering that dunking is allowed, and that grasping is allowed while dunking. I know I have seen it numerous times where a player tries a two-handed dunk, believes or realizes it isn't going to happen, lets one hand slip off to grasp the rim, followed by the other hand driving the ball through, and a final two-handed grasp. On those occasions, I have never seen a T called.

[APG]

Originally Posted by RandyBrown

Perhaps, but I'm wondering if others have a different view, considering that dunking is allowed, and that grasping is allowed while dunking. I know I have seen it numerous times where a player tries a two-handed dunk, believes or realizes it isn't going to happen, lets one hand slip off to grasp the rim, followed by the other hand driving the ball through, and a final two-handed grasp. On those occasions, I have never seen a T called.

Numerous times? Really? Perhaps what you think you are seeing isn't really occurring because I can say I've rarely seen this play happen where the player/team wasn't properly penalized. I could see this maybe happening when the officials on the game aren't used to above the rim play, but for any official who has even done just a few above the rim games, this shouldn't catch them off guard.

[tref]

Originally Posted by RandyBrown

Perhaps, but I'm wondering if others have a different view, considering that dunking is allowed, and that grasping is allowed while dunking. I know I have seen it numerous times where a player tries a two-handed dunk, believes or realizes it isn't going to happen, lets one hand slip off to grasp the rim, followed by the other hand driving the ball through, and a final two-handed grasp. On those occasions, I have never seen a T called.

I'd like to see some of those games!!