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  #1 (permalink)  
Old Tue Dec 17, 2002, 12:41am
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I'm just a fan of NCAA men's BB who's looking for some clarification. This is my first post here, so I don't know if naming teams is appropriate, so I won't.

In a college game last Tuesday, a ref made an intentional foul call with less than two minutes left in the game. The situation was very simple; in order to stop the clock and put someone on the line, player G bearhugs player B (with the ball and the lead) around the chest with no attempt to play the ball. Player G's hands don't meet (about 4 inches apart), and the contact isn't terribly violent, but the closest ref immediately signals for an intentional foul. Player B was in no danger of breaking away - fans of player G's team are livid.

In discussions with fans of both teams, a few folks on both sides call the intentional foul call BS, although some find it appropriate. Arguments against are that they've never (or rarely) seen that call made, that it's a judgement call and that a "ref with any credibility" doesn't call it an intentional foul. I bring up the 2003 NCAA rulebook, Appendix III that includes "wrapping the arms around a player" as one guideline for calling the intentional foul.

Any opinions? According to the ruleebook, it sounds to me like it should be automatic. There was pretty much no dispute over what happened, just whether the action constitutes an intentional foul.
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Old Tue Dec 17, 2002, 12:46am
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Based on NFHS rules (and I have to believe the NCAA is very similiar), the description you have provided this appears to be a clearcut Intentional foul... An act like that, regardless of the time left in the game, should be called as an intentional every time.
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Old Tue Dec 17, 2002, 09:28am
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I think that many of us hesitate to call an intentional foul in this situation because it is an unpopular and poorly understood call by the fans in the stands. When the intention of the foul is to stop the play, then not calling it gives the offending team exactly what they were looking for and therefore gives them a clear advantage at that point of the contest. It seems to me that we should all be calling more of these intentional fouls in this circumstance.
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Old Tue Dec 17, 2002, 10:57am
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Fans don't know squat!!!!

If a bearhug is not an intentional foul...then what is??
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Old Tue Dec 17, 2002, 11:06am
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I continue to find it very humorous when hearing someone explain what has been called an intentional foul and then question "Is that the correct call?"

The person asking the question generally explains the foul as being committed to stop the clock and usually there was no attempt to make a play at the ball....

Well, let's look at the official definition.

NFHS Rule 4-19 Foul
ART. 3... An intentional foul is a personal or technical foul designed to stop or keep the clock from starting, to neutralize an opponent's obvious advantageous position [like a foul or grab from behind as the offense is about to freely score], contact away from the ball or when not playing the ball. It may or may not be premeditated and is not based on the severity of the act. A foul also shall be ruled intentional if while playing the ball a player causes excessive contact with an opponent.

Sounds to me like the official made a very obvious call and correctly made the call as an intentional foul. Looks pretty cut and dried from this end.

"I just was trying to stop the clock!" "Yes, I understand. INTENTIONAL."
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Old Tue Dec 17, 2002, 11:35am
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I should add

Oh - I forgot to say that player B was fouled from behind, and was stationary at that time.

I think two things were happenening.

1) Too many people have this image of last-minute foul-a-thons in the NBA, where the bearhug is an acceptable method of fouling to stop the clock.

2) Officials in the past likely applied their own discretion in late game situations. I've seen it called a few times. I believe that player G was stupid for not reaching in or bumping instead.

3) After reading the NCAA rulebook, I came to the conclusion that there should be no discretion once the arms go around another player. After quoting the relevent portions of the rulebook in my previous discussions, the sentiments vary from, "this makes sense" to "who cares" or "stuff your rulebook down your A@$". I think there are people who really think this shouldn't have been called, just because "everyone knows this is going to happen".

*******

After my post her last night, I came across this "point of emphasis" in the 2003 NCAA rulebook:

"Intentional Fouls and Off-Ball Fouls at the End of a Game
Intentional fouls and fouls committed off the ball in end-of-game situations must be called and penalized as described in the rules."

Oh - thanks for all the responses.
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Old Tue Dec 17, 2002, 11:54am
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The problem is the inconsistency as officials. One crew steps up and calls the intentional, then another night the guys won't call it. Everybody needs to get closer to the same page, imo.
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Old Tue Dec 17, 2002, 02:39pm
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Textbook intentional call. Official did the right thing.
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Old Tue Dec 17, 2002, 03:34pm
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It isn't as easy....

...as it's described here.

Most of call high school and college basketball and watch basketball at all levels, up to the college and professional levels, and quick fouls (usually near the end of the game) designed for no other purpose than to stop the clock are called all the time. Those end-of-game fouls are not called intentional fouls, even though they are "intentional."

As officials, we not only need to enforce the rules, but we need to be true to the game and the way it's called. When 99 pairs of officials go to school X and call quick end-of-game fouls (and for God's sake, if team B WANTS to foul, give it to them a soon as the player with the balls is nudged unless you REALLY want them to foul the next time) and don't call them intentional, then you are doing nobody any favors by changing the way the game is called.

A bearhug? Intentional. A quick bump? Never. End of game fouling is part of basketball, whether we like it or not.

Rich
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Old Wed Dec 18, 2002, 02:00am
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Thumbs up Thanks again for all the responses

Honestly - I came into this discussion knowing full well what I saw was a "textbook" intentional foul. I was simply looking for some verification that this call is actually made in practice and not some theory on a piece of paper. In my previous discussions, some folks were vehement that "it never gets called". Before I checked my copy of the rulebook, I even thought it was a borderline call.

There's a sound clip of Jim Mora that perfectly describes some fans who think they know everything.

"You think you know, but you don't........AND YOU NEVER WILL."
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