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Old Sun Mar 20, 2011, 11:20pm
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As an Arizona fan, I am going to just be happy it went our way.

I really cannot see how that happened though...
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Old Sun Mar 20, 2011, 11:22pm
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Originally Posted by Berkut View Post
As an Arizona fan, I am going to just be happy it went our way.

I really cannot see how that happened though...
As a Texas fan, I will say we choked the game away and that y'all deserved to win.
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Old Sun Mar 20, 2011, 11:56pm
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How can anybody say this is a bad call? Assuming the 4.8 stated above is accurate, what do we expect? If the arm count doesn't match, it is a flaw, sure. But did that have any impact on this particular play? Was the thrower counting the swings out of the corner of his eye thinking "I still have time." I doubt it.
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Old Mon Mar 21, 2011, 12:05am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
How can anybody say this is a bad call? Assuming the 4.8 stated above is accurate, what do we expect? If the arm count doesn't match, it is a flaw, sure. But did that have any impact on this particular play? Was the thrower counting the swings out of the corner of his eye thinking "I still have time." I doubt it.
What do we expect? You don't blow the whistle until you reached 5 visible counts. This is a very basic officiating skill and it's inexcusable to blow that simple of a call at that level. This isn't a judgment call we are talking about...

I have no dog in this fight, but it's ok to acknowledge that the official kicked it.
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Old Mon Mar 21, 2011, 12:29am
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Originally Posted by ILRef80 View Post
What do we expect? You don't blow the whistle until you reached 5 visible counts. This is a very basic officiating skill and it's inexcusable to blow that simple of a call at that level. This isn't a judgment call we are talking about...

I have no dog in this fight, but it's ok to acknowledge that the official kicked it.
Getting the call right and using the correct mechanics are 2 different issues. If he blew the whistle and signaled the violation at 4.8, the call is about as good as it gets. It would have been nice if the arm swings had matched. But this little goof had no impact on this play or this game. jmo
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Old Mon Mar 21, 2011, 12:35am
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Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
Getting the call right and using the correct mechanics are 2 different issues. If he blew the whistle and signaled the violation at 4.8, the call is about as good as it gets. It would have been nice if the arm swings had matched. But this little goof had no impact on this play or this game. jmo
If he had signalled the violation at a measure 5.5, with an arm swing at 4, I could maybe see your point.

The fact that he was early AND his arm swing was on 4 makes it a bit problematic. Considering that the player was asking for a TO when he made the call...ugggh. That is very ugly.
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Old Tue Mar 22, 2011, 02:54am
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Originally Posted by Berkut View Post
If he had signalled the violation at a measure 5.5, with an arm swing at 4, I could maybe see your point.

The fact that he was early AND his arm swing was on 4 makes it a bit problematic. Considering that the player was asking for a TO when he made the call...ugggh. That is very ugly.
His arm was on the 5th swing when he put it up for the violation, not the 4th. Not everone swings "0".
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Old Mon Mar 21, 2011, 07:41am
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Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
how can anybody say this is a bad call? Assuming the 4.8 stated above is accurate, what do we expect? If the arm count doesn't match, it is a flaw, sure. But did that have any impact on this particular play? Was the thrower counting the swings out of the corner of his eye thinking "i still have time." i doubt it.
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Old Mon Mar 21, 2011, 07:50am
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Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
+1
The accepted time so far as per different sources seems to be around 4.3 to 4.4 seconds.

Just saying....
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Old Mon Mar 21, 2011, 07:59am
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Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee View Post
The accepted time so far as per different sources seems to be around 4.3 to 4.4 seconds.

Just saying....
What sources? I gave you two that were much less than that.

The only accepted time would be from the NCAA, and they're not going to say anything because it would acknowledge that the official screwed up and had an unacceptable effect on the game.
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Old Mon Mar 21, 2011, 08:11am
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Originally Posted by JugglingReferee View Post
What sources?

The only accepted time would be from the NCAA, and they're not going to say anything because it would acknowledge that the official screwed up and had an unacceptable effect on the game.
Yahoo sports and one of the big NY papers....

And as I already said, if you don't see Cartmell's name in a box score next weekend, you'll know what the NCAA thought of the call.
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Old Mon Mar 21, 2011, 12:37am
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Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer View Post
As a Texas fan, I will say we choked the game away and that y'all deserved to win.
Funny, right before that play, with Arizona down 2 and Texas putting the ball in...I was thinking that we choked the game away and Texas deserved the win...

I have to admit I was getting a bit tired of watching Brown go to the line every time he threw himself down the lane with abandon. Seemed like the entire strategy was pretty much drive the lane, look for the call. And they got it. What did he hit - 13 free throws in a row? Game had no flow to it at all late in the second.
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Old Mon Mar 21, 2011, 12:42am
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So I turned the TV off not long after the Arizona game, but I have a friend who was telling me later that John Adams came back on the show and referenced the "4-second" timeout rule in defending the referee, esssentially saying the rule IS in the book. Did anyone else see this or was my buddy mistaken??
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Old Mon Mar 21, 2011, 01:00am
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Originally Posted by fiasco View Post
So I turned the TV off not long after the Arizona game, but I have a friend who was telling me later that John Adams came back on the show and referenced the "4-second" timeout rule in defending the referee, esssentially saying the rule IS in the book. Did anyone else see this or was my buddy mistaken??
First I've heard...it's not in the rule book nor case book.
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Old Mon Mar 21, 2011, 05:00am
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Whether we believe the Texas player would be savy enough to count the chops or not, there is supposed to be visible signals of the 5 seconds. Kid sees 4 and asks for time out then gets a 5 second call because the chops do not match the count.

All evidence points towards an official error, but as a baketball fan that was not the difference in the game.
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