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-   -   2011 Tournament Discussion Redux (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/65124-2011-tournament-discussion-redux.html)

JugglingReferee Mon Mar 21, 2011 06:46am

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Jurassic Referee Mon Mar 21, 2011 07:04am

Quote:

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 741743)
The rule is no different in college. IMO, it should not have been a BC violation. However I think he may have travelled. I need to see the replay again.

You are wise beyond your years. I had the same thought in real time. After looking at the replay in the other thread, there was no OOB violation by rule but he did travel after the play. The first foot down( the one on the center line) was established as the pivot foot when the second foot landed after that. He then picked up his pivot foot and put it back down in the front court. He got the proper result on the play....violation... but for the wrong reason.

grunewar Mon Mar 21, 2011 07:11am

Our Time of the Year!
 
Ya gotta admit, with all the "controversies" going on in March Madness, the tournament was made for:

1) Fans,
2) Arm Chair Officials,
3) Critics,
4) TV,
5) Instant Replay,
6) Uniformed Announcers,
7) The internet (Forums, Chat Rooms, YouTube)
plus many more......

Great stuff!

And now, back to our regularly scheduled banter. Carry on!

Jurassic Referee Mon Mar 21, 2011 07:15am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee (Post 741862)
Just saw the clip on my SportsCentre.

I timed the play as did the sports report. They had 3.9s and I have 4.02s. That's not even close to being a violation.

Horrible call.

How horrible will be decided if we don't see that official's name on a game report next weekend.

Supposedly, this is one of the criteria the NCAA uses to sort out who advances.

biz Mon Mar 21, 2011 07:40am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee (Post 741888)
You are wise beyond your years. I had the same thought in real time. After looking at the replay in the other thread, there was no OOB violation by rule but he did travel after the play. The first foot down( the one on the center line) was established as the pivot foot when the second foot landed after that. He then picked up his pivot foot and put it back down in the front court. He got the proper result on the play....violation... but for the wrong reason.

Very true that it appears that he traveled, but in real time it's tough to say when he controls the ball. He appears to fumble the ball slightly with the one hand catch. While it is clear, when the video is slowed down, that he traveled it was far less clear at full speed.

It doesn't change the fact that this was not a backcourt violation which was the call. That is a tough miss in the closing seconds of a NCAA tournament game, and furthermore it is not a "judgement" call it was an improper application of the rules. I would love to hear what Mr. Adams has to say about this call, but unfortunately I don't think we'll hear from him on this because very few people realize that it was the improper call.

Adam Mon Mar 21, 2011 07:41am

Quote:

Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 741806)
how can anybody say this is a bad call? Assuming the 4.8 stated above is accurate, what do we expect? If the arm count doesn't match, it is a flaw, sure. But did that have any impact on this particular play? Was the thrower counting the swings out of the corner of his eye thinking "i still have time." i doubt it.

+1

Jurassic Referee Mon Mar 21, 2011 07:50am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 741904)
+1

The accepted time so far as per different sources seems to be around 4.3 to 4.4 seconds.

Just saying....

JugglingReferee Mon Mar 21, 2011 07:59am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee (Post 741906)
The accepted time so far as per different sources seems to be around 4.3 to 4.4 seconds.

Just saying....

What sources? I gave you two that were much less than that.

The only accepted time would be from the NCAA, and they're not going to say anything because it would acknowledge that the official screwed up and had an unacceptable effect on the game.

Jurassic Referee Mon Mar 21, 2011 08:11am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee (Post 741909)
What sources?

The only accepted time would be from the NCAA, and they're not going to say anything because it would acknowledge that the official screwed up and had an unacceptable effect on the game.

Yahoo sports and one of the big NY papers....

And as I already said, if you don't see Cartmell's name in a box score next weekend, you'll know what the NCAA thought of the call.

Eastshire Mon Mar 21, 2011 08:28am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee (Post 741915)
Yahoo sports and one of the big NY papers....

And as I already said, if you don't see Cartmell's name in a box score next weekend, you'll know what the NCAA thought of the call.

No, actually we won't. If we do see his name, we will know they were okay with it, but not seeing his name doesn't mean this one call is why he didn't move on. It may be but it may not.

JugglingReferee Mon Mar 21, 2011 08:40am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee (Post 741915)
Yahoo sports and one of the big NY papers....

And as I already said, if you don't see Cartmell's name in a box score next weekend, you'll know what the NCAA thought of the call.

Disagree.

If that was his only bad call, then he would grade better than other officials, and then would move on by virtue of sucking less.

You're usually known for fact seeking. The best way to know what the NCAA thinks of that call is to hear directly from Adams about that call - and by that I mean either a "correct" or an "incorrect". Anything other than that is supposition.

Raymond Mon Mar 21, 2011 08:55am

Quote:

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee (Post 741863)
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He aborted his 5th stroke to blow his whistle and looked like, to me at least, that he thought about granting the time-out and then decided to call the 5-second violation.

Me personally, I'm granting the time-out in that situation.

Raymond Mon Mar 21, 2011 09:13am

I didn't see any of the FSU/ND game. What caused all the T's to be called?

Jburt Mon Mar 21, 2011 09:39am

Did Texas have any TO remaining?

Adam Mon Mar 21, 2011 09:42am

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jburt (Post 741940)
Did Texas have any TO remaining?

Not relevant to the discussion at hand, really. If they didn't, the proper call would have been to grant the TO and charge the TF (assuming it was requested in time) rather than ignore it and charge the 5 second violation.


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