Another suggested FED rule change

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by RookieDude

chseagle...on a side note:

Would you like a rule MANDATING that clock operators/scorebook keepers wear stripes/grays/uniform so that the officials can more readily see you at the table?

Remember...now the whole gym can see who the table officials are...

It would make things easier to identify who should be at the table & who shouldn't.

During NWAACCs we had a Turquoise-like blue polo that we were asked to wear, & the scorer had on a striped garment.

During the last half of this season my family & I were wearing purple polos that identified us as game management.

During the 3A/4A Regionals last year, everyone was giving a bright neon green t-shirt that was game management.

As I see it, the easier to identify game management the better.

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by RookieDude

chseagle...on a side note:

Would you like a rule MANDATING that clock operators/scorebook keepers wear stripes/grays/uniform so that the officials can more readily see you at the table?

Remember...now the whole gym can see who the table officials are...

Concerning making a rule MANDATORY, how about appendix 4.0 of the 2009-2011 Basketball Officials' Manual that talks about who should be selected as game management & the training they must go through?

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by chseagle

It also depends on the person's experience & their maturity level as to how well they comprehend what needs to be done.

Depending on the scoreboard setup, I beg to differ as to which can be more complicated.

Ok so let's make everything simplistic & have FED adopt all NCAA Rules.

No matter how you slice it properly operating the shot clock is more difficult than the scoreboard. And it has nothing to do with the buttons, knobs, or switches. Has to do with rules.

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

No matter how you slice it properly operating the shot clock is more difficult than the scoreboard. And it has nothing to do with the buttons, knobs, or switches. Has to do with rules.

Again, it can depend on a person's experience & training.

Sure put in personnel that have only watched the games, more mistakes happen. Put in a person that has read the rules, watched a few games, & done some practice either via scrimmages or lower-level games the chance for mistakes is minimized.

What I was meaning with the scoreboard vs. shot clock controls is that generally all a shot clock operator has to worry about is the on/off switch, reset button, & blank button. The scoreboard operator on the other hand has the score buttons, foul buttons, & game clock controls.

Depending on the scoreboard setup, more mistakes can be made due to having to input player numbers after every made basket & after every foul called.

No need to worry about player numbers with the shot clock.

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

No matter how you slice it properly operating the shot clock is more difficult than the scoreboard. And it has nothing to do with the buttons, knobs, or switches. Has to do with rules.

Hence why I as saying that the FED should make the Duties of Game Management appendix mandatory is cause of how often I have seen the misapplication of rules by table personnel due to either not keeping themselves up to date or not reading the rules at all.

[ODJ]

NCAA tried this in mid-80s for a test season in Pac-10. Didn't work.
Rarely did team take the throw-in.

[RookieDude]

Originally Posted by chseagle

Concerning making a rule MANDATORY, how about appendix 4.0 of the 2009-2011 Basketball Officials' Manual that talks about who should be selected as game management & the training they must go through?

"It may be an honor to act as timer or scorer, but it's not an honor that should be passed around with each game."

"Above all, choose someone with plenty of poise, good judgement, a sense of impartiality..."

"Insist that your timer and scorer attend one of the state-sponsored rules and interpretation meetings and, if possible, an occasional meeting of a local officials' group."

"See that your timer and scorer are accorded the same courtesy and respect as that due the floor officials."

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by RookieDude

"It may be an honor to act as timer or scorer, but it's not an honor that should be passed around with each game."

"Above all, choose someone with plenty of poise, good judgement, a sense of impartiality..."

"Insist that your timer and scorer attend one of the state-sponsored rules and interpretation meetings and, if possible, an occasional meeting of a local officials' group."

"See that your timer and scorer are accorded the same courtesy and respect as that due the floor officials."

I'm meaning the whole of section 4.0 not just bits & pieces.

Thinking back to watching games as either a spectator or as crowd control, it is a bit of a surprise to see who knows the rules & who doesn't (who should be game management & who shouldn't).

I'm almost tempted to ask everyone here in the area that does do table operations how well they do know the rules pertaining to their duties/responsibilities (however I'd be kind of afraid of what the response would be like).

[Raymond]

chseagle, a scoreboard operator is only has to pay attention to an official's whistle and when an officials chops the clock and push a button accordingly.

A shot clock operator has to understand the nuances of when to reset, when to hold, when to do nothing. A shot clock operator has to be totally engaged into the game AND know the rules specific to shot clock administration.

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

chseagle, a scoreboard operator is only has to pay attention to an official's whistle and when an officials chops the clock and push a button accordingly.

A shot clock operator has to understand the nuances of when to reset, when to hold, when to do nothing. A shot clock operator has to be totally engaged into the game AND know the rules specific to shot clock administration.

IF all the scoreboard operator has to do is watch the floor officials, then who do coaches yell at when there's a score or foul discrepancy?

It's always the scoreboard that gets yelled at by the coaches, not the scorebooks, so there's more to it then you are thinking there is.

During the JUCO Tournament, at times, the scoreboard operator was assisting the scorer with the identifying of who scored.

So the scoreboard operator has to be paying attention to both the action on the court as well as be in constant communication with the official scorebook throughout the game. To some it may be easy to do scoreboard, however it's not as easy as it seems to be, especially when dealing with other table personnel that are either not well versed in their roles or care more about supporting their team than assisting with game management.

I've been on both ends of the spectrum, a table crew & floor crew that works well together as well as the exact opposite.

I've been on setups where one or two of the table work well with the floor officials, yet the other table personnel either don't care or have no clue. On some of those games, table personnel were replaced at halftime, if not sooner.

I've seen games where every other time down the court, the game has to be stopped due to an error/issue, as well as seen games where not once have the floor officials had to approach the table due to scoring/timing issues.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by chseagle

IF all the scoreboard operator has to do is watch the floor officials, then who do coaches yell at when there's a score or foul discrepancy?

...

They don't get to yell at anyone. And it's the scorer's responsibility to ensure the timer is keeping the correct score on the scoreboard.

I've done them all chseagle in my lifetime. Without a doubt operating the shot clock was the most taxing job.

With all the different scenarios you have described where there have been problems with the table how do now expect these same people to also be able to do a shot clock properly?

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

With all the different scenarios you have described where there have been problems with the table how do now expect these same people to also be able to do a shot clock properly?

By complying with Appendix 4.0 in the 2009-2011 Officials' Manual

Knowing the rules, duties, & responsibilities to the position in which they are doing & complying with all the above.

Not doing Varsity level contests until they have had so many sub-Varsity games experience.

Be committed in doing that position game in/game out.

Anything else missing?

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

They don't get to yell at anyone. And it's the scorer's responsibility to ensure the timer is keeping the correct score on the scoreboard.

Not always is the scorer keeping the scorebook up to date, in which case new personnel should be found to be the scorer.

As I have said before, if the only official information on the scoreboard is the time remaining, then what gives coaches the right/privilege to complain about the information on the scoreboard?

Some scoreboards have the same capabilities of the scorebook by keeping track of the active players & player point & foul totals, so that information is not considered official? If that information is not official then why do coaches yell about errors in that information?

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by chseagle

By complying with Appendix 4.0 in the 2009-2011 Officials' Manual

Knowing the rules, duties, & responsibilities to the position in which they are doing & complying with all the above.

Not doing Varsity level contests until they have had so many sub-Varsity games experience.

Be committed in doing that position game in/game out.

Anything else missing?

One more thing...

Be committed to truth, justice and The American Way™!

[Adam]

How in the world did I miss out on all the discussion about changes to the table rules? I feel so left out.