How to deal with bad refs

[just another ref]

As to the refs being certified or not, as others have stated, it is certainly not a cure-all if they are certified. Attitude toward the game is probably more important. A state finals official may call your game one night as a favor to somebody, but think that the game is beneath him. This guy may not do the job as well on that particular night as a rookie still hungry for time on the court and striving to improve.

[Terrapins Fan]

I bet if you filmed the games and had a "certified" official watch the film, he would not see the same things you see.

You are looking at the game from someone who has an investment.

No matter what you believe, I am going to say over 98% of all officials do not care who wins a game. And I don't know any of the maybe 2% who do care, I have never met one who does.

[dave30]

It's REC league. Do you really think an official would take a chance on ruining his credibility by cheating in a REC league? Why would anyone care who wins in a REC league? Referees surely do not.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Judtech

"Asking a nun about sex"

Nun of this. Nun of that.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

I have never met one who does.

Neither have I. Never.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by terrapins fan

i bet if you filmed the games and had a "certified" official watch the film, he would not see the same things you see.

You are looking at the game from someone who has an investment.

No matter what you believe, i am going to say over 98% of all officials do not care who wins a game. And i don't know any of the maybe 2% who do care, i have never met one who does.

+1

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by coach-rec

- no call on one side of the court and we're called for the same action (granted by a different ref) on the other side (see question below concerning this).

That's the oldest complaint in the book. Every coach I've ever worked sees it that way. It other words, there's very little cedibility to this complaint.

- Kid gets slapped across the arm and when I ask for an explanation of how the ref couldn't call it I'm told "it was all ball and your kid is just soft"

You thought it was across the arm, he said it was all ball. Are we supposed to rely solely on your response?

I also am wondering if I'm imagining this or not. Isn't there a rule where the refs don't officiate the same side after halftime? I've noticed that the same ref always positions himself on our offensive side of the ball and it's consistent enough to not be coincidence.

Just curious, do you have the same two officials for every game? Do they officiate HS games or are they two kids who work for the rec dept.?

[cmhjordan23]

@coach-rec. I think I understand your question about switching at half-time. Generally regardless of where an official was positioned at anytime during the 1st half, the official who went up with the jump ball will take the ball out at side court and becoming the trail official. Me personally, HS games vs rec ball I might do a little differently. Rec I will not switch on all fouls but generally ALWAYS switch on free throws depending whether I called it from the top or from the endline. Although there is no reason not to switch with a running clock because your not taking up extra time.

[coach-rec]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

That's the oldest complaint in the book. Every coach I've ever worked sees it that way. It other words, there's very little cedibility to this complaint.

I'm not worried about credibility as my goal is not to get you to side with me. My goal was to get an opinion on the idea which several people gave some pretty good opinions on.

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

You thought it was across the arm, he said it was all ball. Are we supposed to rely solely on your response?

The issue in point here is not that he thought it was ball. It was the comment after to me that "your PG is soft". You can rely on whatever you want in your determination as it's my issue to deal with.

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Just curious, do you have the same two officials for every game? Do they officiate HS games or are they two kids who work for the rec dept.?

We do have the same two officails for 90% of the games except a few times over the past two years where one could not show up. In those cases another ref shows up or one of the league organizers helps out. They are men that ref in other rec leagues for the city as I've seen them refing some of the lower age group games as well. Several people have pointed out that it's tough to get good refs to coach these leagues. In a conversation yesterday I found out that the main ref that doesn't miss games and seems to favor the two teams in question was recommended by those two teams when there were issues finding refs to do it.

[Adam]

Coach, please realize that when you accuse him of favoring teams, you are directly saying he has no integrity. Most officials find that to be a very serious accusation.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by coach-rec

The issue in point here is not that he thought it was ball. It was the comment after to me that "your PG is soft". You can rely on whatever you want in your determination as it's my issue to deal with.

If he's trying to say he thinks your pg should have played through some incidental contact, it makes sense. Either way, this comment is completely unprofessional for an official to make.

That's something I would address with league management.

Honestly, if things are as bad as you suggest, you might want to consider taking your kids to another league (or forming your own league.)

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Coach, please realize that when you accuse him of favoring teams, you are directly saying he has no integrity. Most officials find that to be a very serious accusation.

+1

I T'd a coach least season for insinuating that I was a cheater. No warning, no stop sign. In fact, I didn't even wait for him to finish his sentence.

[coach-rec]

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

I bet if you filmed the games and had a "certified" official watch the film, he would not see the same things you see.

You are looking at the game from someone who has an investment.

No matter what you believe, I am going to say over 98% of all officials do not care who wins a game. And I don't know any of the maybe 2% who do care, I have never met one who does.

I would agree with you in most cases as I stick up for these same refs myself from time to time with the parents and even the kids. My issue is that even the favored teams kids and coaches admit that these refs make up calls and "don't call anything" from time to time when it's discussed outside the environment.

I cannot disagree with you about the investment comment either however I would also say that just because I have an investment doesn't make it an absolute that what I'm saying has no merit.

I would never try and tie this issue to all officials. I'm talking about one rec league and two officials. This does not in any way represent what officials stand for as I respect what they do and agree with the comment somewhere above about when a coach says "you really did right by us" that he should be worried.

[tref]

In addition to what Snaqs shared, coach, you are aware that mere contact does not constitute a foul? We referee the "result of contact" not just blowing the whistle because someone was touched on the arm.

If players dont want to be touched, I generally suggest that they look into table tennis or bowling, etc.

[coach-rec]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Coach, please realize that when you accuse him of favoring teams, you are directly saying he has no integrity. Most officials find that to be a very serious accusation.

I realize that quite well and would hope an official would take it that way. This is why I haven't said it to his face and decided to get some other opinions on it before I made an issue of it.

I appreciate all the feedback I'm getting. In the end we have the championship game Monday against the other "favored" team so we'll see what happens. My hope and message in practice is that we should execute well enough so that no other factors, other teams performance included, can affect the outcome. They're capable so it's ultimately up to them.