Should I have "T"ed this?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Yes, I did. And I got your answer. Your answer was that you'd let a player kick the ball into the stands if you thought he was frustrated with himself. And as I said before, it's always a judgment call. Personally, I'd never let any player kick the ball into the stands without me whacking him for doing that. I can see using your judgment as to whether to issue a "T" or not for a player bouncing the ball hard, depending on who he's frustrated at and the game circumstances. Kicking the ball into the stands though is always an an automatic "T" to me. But hey, that's just me.

If you think kicking the ball in the stands is the same as bouncing a ball (where there is no directive in writing for that standard BTW) than that is fine. I am just telling you what I am going to do and not going to do. Just like kid that threw the ball in the stand in the Big East game, there is no directive to penalize that specifically. So you have to use your judgment like we do all the time for these things. I am going to worry about the things that will likely happen, not things that I read about on a board and never see in a real game.

Peace

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

ere, I have never been told that bouncing the ball is a T as people here want to suggest. Actually when the situation happened in the Championship game where the Memphis player bounced the ball to the sky and no T was given, I was at camps where NCAA officials that were clinicians praised the decision because of why the player bounced the ball. The player missed two FTs in a key point of the game and if I recall people here wanted a T. Well they did not give a T and it appeared the higher ups felt the call was OK with them. I would consider kicking the ball different, but everything IMO has context. Again, there is nowhere in the rules that says bouncing, kicking or throwing the ball anywhere is a foul. I have given a T in a game for a kid throwing the ball hard towards me and I caught it. He was frustrated with a call that my partner made and the player's coach told me that was a great T. It is all context in my opinion when and where it happens. And I used to take these "all or nothing" philosophies but I have learned in my 15 years of working varsity basketball all over my state, all kids and actions do not equal each other.

Well, not trying to get in the middle of you and Tony...mainly because I can get myself in enough sh!t around here usually without relying on others....

As I said, I can certainly see discretion being used in some instances for some acts, depending on the circumstances. And that includes slamming the ball or maybe throwing the ball against a wall so that it comes right back to him. If I think the player was doing it out of frustration at himself or being mad at himself, then yes, I would take that into consideration too. But there are some acts that I personally feel are always a no-brainer. And they include deliberately throwing or kicking the ball up into the stands at any time, no matter the reason. Another might be a loud "F" shot for no good reason either. Personally, I don't mind the odd "F" shot is the volume is kept low and it's not happening all the time. But if someone cranks up the bass so everyone in the world can hear him, then unless there's a damn good reason for it...like the ballplayer just having broken a leg or sumthin'... I'm gonna whack that too.

Anyone else's input as to whether throwing or kicking the ball up in the stands is usually a no-brainer "T" in their area or not?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Well, not trying to get in the middle of you and Tony...mainly because I can get myself in enough sh!t around here usually without relying on others....

LOL!!! I do know that. But if he is going to comment on what I say, I can do the same. No one was talking to him and your question was a reasonable one IMO too. I just did not answer how you probably like, but that will not be the first time that happened.

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

As I said, I can certainly see discretion being used in some instances for some acts, depending on the circumstances. And that includes slamming the ball or maybe throwing the ball against a wall so that it comes right back to him. If I think the player was doing it out of frustration at himself or being mad at himself, then yes, I would take that into consideration too. But there are some acts that I personally feel are always a no-brainer. And they include deliberately throwing or kicking the ball up into the stands at any time, no matter the reason. Another might be a loud "F" shot for no good reason either.

My only point is I have never seen a kid even attempt that other than to somehow kill the clock (kind of like the Big East situation). And the language part would depend on where I am, who did it and how many others could do it. In a game I had on Friday the gym was so loud I would not be able to hear anything. So unless I could hear something I doubt I would be giving a T for any language alone. Maybe some action would provoke a T, but I would HTBT to say for sure.

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Personally, I don't mind the odd "F" shot is the volume is kept low and it's not happening all the time. But if someone cranks up the bass so everyone in the world can hear him, then unless there's a damn good reason for it...like the ballplayer just having broken a leg or sumthin'... I'm gonna whack that too.

Agreed.

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Anyone else's input as to whether throwing or kicking the ball up in the stands is usually a no-brainer "T" in their area or not?

Again I have no problem with your standard. I am just saying that context matters to me. Because I hear officials say all the time the ball bouncing is an automatic T. Then I have heard officials recently say the "hand wave" is an automatic T as well.

[Terrapins Fan]

Originally Posted by bainsey

I had a player or two slam the ball in frustration once or twice yesterday. They got on my radar, but nothing beyond that.

And Terp, people want a technical foul on the opposition in the same way they want a personal foul -- when they believe the opposition committed one, and they're looking for that advantage. Either way, it's your call.

Thanks. I agree.

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

It did fly past his hands and he caught it on the way down.

I didn't want a bad call making the difference in the game.

I called 7 "T"s in 11 games at the end of the season, my partners called another 4 and I thought " do I really have to call this?" I didn't think it was required by rule, like the "T" for removing the shirt, so I passed and they still weren't happy with me....

If you are always counting how many Ts and you are concerned whether or not you are calling too many, that is not a good place to be. What happened in a previous game or games has NO bearing on what is happening in the present game. Probably not something I would call a T on, but I would not be dwelling on the season's statistics while deciding.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

I would not be dwelling on the season's statistics while deciding.

I keep forgetting. Is it better if we call more technical fouls, or fewer technical fouls. I can't find it in my manual.

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I keep forgetting. Is it better if we call more technical fouls, or fewer technical fouls. I can't find it in my manual.

How about "It is totally irrelevant to the situation at hand that he called 7 techs in the last 4 games"? Does that clear it up for you?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

If you are always counting how many Ts and you are concerned whether or not you are calling too many, that is not a good place to be. What happened in a previous game or games has NO bearing on what is happening in the present game. Probably not something I would call a T on, but I would not be dwelling on the season's statistics while deciding.

Well said. There should be a permanent POE in the rule book every year that states "Just call the damn game!"

[GoodwillRef]

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

It did fly past his hands and he caught it on the way down.

I didn't want a bad call making the difference in the game.

I called 7 "T"s in 11 games at the end of the season, my partners called another 4 and I thought " do I really have to call this?" I didn't think it was required by rule, like the "T" for removing the shirt, so I passed and they still weren't happy with me....

Bad call? Who said this is a bad call...the rule book says it is an technical foul for unsporting behavior. Not usporting towards an officials! The player didn't have to slam the ball, if you whack him, it is all on the player. He is so mad at his team, that is up 3 points, that he has to slam the ball...come on man.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

If you are always counting how many Ts and you are concerned whether or not you are calling too many, that is not a good place to be. What happened in a previous game or games has NO bearing on what is happening in the present game. Probably not something I would call a T on, but I would not be dwelling on the season's statistics while deciding.

I'll admit, I keep up with my T's (but, I haven't been around as long as some of you and maybe this will stop someday). I keep them in my log and annual game report (for taxes, plus learning).

Here's how I have used mine before.

This year I gave the same player two - T's and ejected him. I told the Rec league it was the first time I've ever done that.

Last year I T'd and ejected a coach and tossed a fan in the same game. Again, I wrote my report to the league and told them it was a first for me.

Important? Maybe not. But to a Rec League Commissioner, who knows me and my demeanor very well, who might be deciding on a punishment or enforcement, to say I have reffed x-hundreds of games and this is the first time I've ever given two-T's to one player or tossed a coach/fan may just show them how unusual this is and get my point across.

In filing my HS reports, I just file em.

Let the beatings commence.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by bktballref

you missed the point.

He says he would never call a t on a player who is only frustrated at himself. But then when you ask him if he would t a player who kicks the ball into the stands, he knows that he would but he refuses to admit that he would because that would be admitting that he was wrong. Any official who wouldn't t such an incident shouldn't be on a basketball floor.

Btw, he's on my ignore list, as i can no longer stand to read his moronic posts. Do me a favor and don't quote him.

+1

+1

+1

[Adam]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

Bad call? Who said this is a bad call...the rule book says it is an technical foul for unsporting behavior. Not usporting towards an officials! The player didn't have to slam the ball, if you whack him, it is all on the player. He is so mad at his team, that is up 3 points, that he has to slam the ball...come on man.

Where?

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Where?

10-4-1: This includes, but is not limited to, acts of conduct.......

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Terrapins Fan

It a close ball game 45-42 under 1 minute to go, the coach for the team winning calls a TO. I am on baseline where the ball is, partner gets the TO.

As it is called, A1 ( team winning ) slams the ball the ball to the floor in frustration with HIS team mates.

I did not call the T, the team behind goes nuts, had I made a call and he slams the ball, I got a T, First time people are yelling at me because I DID NOT call a T....

Couple of years ago, MTD, Jr., and I are officiating a boys' JV game. The game is tied with under ten seconds left in the game when H1 attempts a two-point FG. I am T table side and the rebound comes off toward my sideline. H2 and V2 come down with the ball and I sound my whistle while signalling a held ball. H2 thinks he as been called for a foul, slams the ball, and by slamming I mean releasing the ball with such force that it goes about fifteen feet in the air on the rebound. Easy TF, and the H-HC was livid at H2 for losing his temper.

MTD, Sr.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by just another ref

10-4-1: This includes, but is not limited to, acts of conduct.......

Hardly