Should I have "T"ed this?

[Terrapins Fan]

It a close ball game 45-42 under 1 minute to go, the coach for the team winning calls a TO. I am on baseline where the ball is, partner gets the TO.

As it is called, A1 ( team winning ) slams the ball the ball to the floor in frustration with HIS team mates.

I did not call the T, the team behind goes nuts, had I made a call and he slams the ball, I got a T, First time people are yelling at me because I DID NOT call a T....

[Scrapper1]

Did he catch the ball or let it fly to the ceiling?

In the first case, it's an obvious no-call to me. In the second case, it's probably a no-call (it's not delaying the game, and it doesn't seem to be unsporting), but it's not quite as obvious to me.

[BillyMac]

Agree with Scrapper1. I hate it when kids do this. It's real easy to charge a technical foul here when the kid is showing his frustration with an official's call. It's a gray area when he's frustrated with himself, or his teammates. Makes it tough on the officials since the opposing fans, and the opposing coaches, always seem to want a technical foul charged.

[Mark Padgett]

Even though around here I'm known at "Mr. T", I would let this one go. He didn't indicate displeasure with the officials, he didn't delay the game, he didn't intentionally or flagrantly initiate contact during a dead ball, etc. I would just tell him not to do it again.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

Around here I'm known at "Mr. T".

... wearing a belt. And, Mark Padgett, a gold lanyard? Really?

[JRutledge]

No, he showed frustration to himself. And it would not matter to me how high the ball got away, I am still giving a player that is mad with himself and not me a longer rope or consideration. I also do not give a darn what the "other fans" think. If they want to do my job, get a whistle and get your butt out there and then you can decide what I do on the court. Until then, a player that is upset with themselves over a bad play is always going to get away with much more than if they are upset with me or my officiating partners.

Peace

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

No, he showed frustration to himself. And it would not matter to me how high the ball got away, I am still giving a player that is mad with himself and not me a longer rope or consideration. I also do not give a darn what the "other fans" think. If they want to do my job, get a whistle and get your butt out there and then you can decide what I do on the court. Until then, a player that is upset with themselves over a bad play is always going to get away with much more than if they are upset with me or my officiating partners.

Same no-call if he threw or kicked the ball into the stands out of frustration at himself?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Same no-call if he threw or kicked the ball into the stands out of frustration at himself?

If your suggestion is that he must do something over the top to get a T, then you would be wrong. I will give a T to a kid if they do not curse and they do not directly say something to me under the right circumstances if their actions are in frustration with me or an opponent. It is not about the specific actions, it is about whom they direct it towards.

Peace

[Terrapins Fan]

It did fly past his hands and he caught it on the way down.

I didn't want a bad call making the difference in the game.

I called 7 "T"s in 11 games at the end of the season, my partners called another 4 and I thought " do I really have to call this?" I didn't think it was required by rule, like the "T" for removing the shirt, so I passed and they still weren't happy with me....

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

If your suggestion is that he must do something over the top to get a T, then you would be wrong. I will give a T to a kid if they do not curse and they do not directly say something to me under the right circumstances if their actions are in frustration with me or an opponent. It is not about the specific actions, it is about whom they direct it towards.

You'd really let a player kick the ball into the rafters if you thought he was just frustrated at himself?

I know technical fouls are always judgmental in nature, but that would be way over my personal line. That's taking it way too far imo...without even getting into the "delaying the game" aspect. If you let one player do that, you're gonna have to let all of 'em do it. Just not a good idea imo.

[DesMoines]

+1 JRut.

Typical exchange for me: "What did he say??" Nothing. He was showing (or made) a disrespectful and unsporting attitude (or display) toward an official (or a call).

I don't put up with much... especially from Freshmen and Sophomores.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

You'd really let a player kick the ball into the rafters if you thought he was just frustrated at himself?

Yes, that is what I said.

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

I know technical fouls are always judgmental in nature, but that would be way over my personal line. That's taking it way too far imo...without even getting into the "delaying the game" aspect. If you let one player do that, you're gonna have to let all of 'em do it. Just not a good idea imo.

You added the "kicking" part to this. I was talking in general about a kid showing frustration with themselves or a teammate. My point was that a kid could do none of those things and get a T from me if they say something or do something to show frustration with me, a fellow official or an opponent. And I have never seen a kid in any game I have ever officiated kick the ball into the stands (or even watching) to show any level of frustration towards anyone, including themselves. Now if that happens it would be addressed, but we are talking about a kid bouncing the ball and that is something I have seen in many forms over the years. I will worry about your example when a kid does that in a game.

Peace

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

Yes, that is what I said.

You added the "kicking" part to this.

Yes, I did. And I got your answer. Your answer was that you'd let a player kick the ball into the stands if you thought he was frustrated with himself. And as I said before, it's always a judgment call. Personally, I'd never let any player kick the ball into the stands without me whacking him for doing that. I can see using your judgment as to whether to issue a "T" or not for a player bouncing the ball hard, depending on who he's frustrated at and the game circumstances. Kicking the ball into the stands though is always an an automatic "T" to me. But hey, that's just me.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You added the "kicking" part to this.

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Kicking the ball into the stands though is always an an automatic "T" to me.

Hey guys. Bring this over to the Football Forum, or the Soccer Forum, where it belongs.

[bainsey]

I had a player or two slam the ball in frustration once or twice yesterday. They got on my radar, but nothing beyond that.

And Terp, people want a technical foul on the opposition in the same way they want a personal foul -- when they believe the opposition committed one, and they're looking for that advantage. Either way, it's your call.