Passed on Foul, so Passed on the Travel

[CDurham]

We had a play where a player gets hit and loses his balance. Foul? Well my partner passed on it and the player falls to the floor in control of the ball. Travel? My partner passed on this as well since he did not call the foul which caused the travel.

I have never heard of this philosophy, not saying that is wrong, of passing on 2 things when one caused the other. Does anyone view this situation as my partner did (didnt call the foul so you cannot call the travel). Wouldn't you have to get one or the other. I see it as necessary to call the late foul, but can also see his argument as well, of passing on both if you do not get the culprit which was the foul.

[APG]

I wouldn't follow this philosophy. All your partner did was take a missed call and compound it with another missed call.

[Mark Padgett]

This makes no sense. According to your post, your partner would have called the travel if he had first called the foul. Huh?

[CDurham]

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett

This makes no sense. According to your post, your partner would have called the travel if he had first called the foul. Huh?

There was contact that caused the player to fall to the court with the ball. But my partner could not call the travel because he did not call the foul which caused the fall to the court.

If there would not have been contact then he would have had a travel. But there was contact that he passed on so he couldnt punish the player for falling to the court as a result of the contact.

[Adam]

Have a late whistle on the foul if you truly think it caused the travel.

[APG]

Why didn't your partner come in with a late call? If by his judgment he deemed the contact not to be a foul, then you have to call the travel. How do you explain to the coach why you didn't call a travel? Your partner's philosophy doesn't make any sense to me. The tape is going to show two no-call incorrects instead of getting the initial call correct or just one missed call.

[tomegun]

Originally Posted by CDurham

There was contact that caused the player to fall to the court with the ball. But my partner could not call the travel because he did not call the foul which caused the fall to the court.

If there would not have been contact then he would have had a travel. But there was contact that he passed on so he couldnt punish the player for falling to the court as a result of the contact.

Yes, he could have called a travel so to say otherwise isn't true. However, without seeing the play it sounds like your partner should have called the foul first and the situation wouldn't have happened.

It (or something similar) happened before and it will happen again.

[CDurham]

We all spoke about the play at halftime after he brought it up. And that is when he threw out his philosophy. He's a great official, but this play was a head scratcher for my other partner and I.

[bbcof83]

Call the foul late. You are only making things worse by no calling the travel. I learned this the hard way when I was younger and thought this logic made sense too. It doesn't

Clearly an advantage was gained. Even if you had originally decided to pass on the foul, now you HAVE to call it because the alternatives (call the travel or don't call the travel) are just not viable.

[tref]

I wonder if I worked with your partner Saturday!

Im new T on a throw-in after a made basket & all of a sudden a defender is OOB with the thrower. I call a DOG... after the game he says the defender was pushed OOB & I shouldn't have called the DOG

Im thinking to myself, if you called the foul then I wouldnt have had to

But I kept it to myself as thats what you get when they mix up the crews from different areas this time of year...

[jTheUmp]

Originally Posted by bbcof83

Call the foul late. You are only making things worse by no calling the travel. I learned this the hard way when I was younger and thought this logic made sense too. It doesn't

Clearly an advantage was gained. Even if you had originally decided to pass on the foul, now you HAVE to call it because the alternatives (call the travel or don't call the travel) are just not viable.

+1 to the entire thing. I too have done the "passed on the foul, have to pass on the violation" thing earlier in my career. All that happens is that you end up with TWO teams coaches and fans thinking you're an idiot on that call instead of only ONE teams coaches and fans thinking it.

[grunewar]

One of our Trainers has a saying:

Never let a missed foul cause a violation, and never let a missed violation cause a foul.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by tref

Im new T on a throw-in after a made basket & all of a sudden a defender is OOB with the thrower. I call a DOG... after the game he says the defender was pushed OOB & I shouldn't have called the DOG

Im thinking to myself, if you called the foul then I wouldnt have had to

But I kept it to myself as thats what you get when they mix up the crews from different areas this time of year...

So what were you looking at that you didn't see the defender get pushed?

As for the OP, I have seen this philosophy used on oob plays - "I didn't call the foul so I will give the ball back to that team" - but never on a foul that knocks a player to the floor. As others have said - late whistle on the foul would be excellent.

My other question would be - why didn't one of the other two of you (for the OP'er) come in and make the late foul call?

[CDurham]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

So what were you looking at that you didn't see the defender get pushed?

As for the OP, I have seen this philosophy used on oob plays - "I didn't call the foul so I will give the ball back to that team" - but never on a foul that knocks a player to the floor. As others have said - late whistle on the foul would be excellent.

My other question would be - why didn't one of the other two of you (for the OP'er) come in and make the late foul call?

It wasn't my area. He was all over the play and had a reason for not making the call, so I wouldn't think about coming over there and making the call. Thrown punch, elbow, or kick and of course you have a different story

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by CDurham

And that is when he threw out his philosophy.

He should throw out that philosophy.