Scorekeeping Error in Playoff Game

[SCalScoreKeeper]

Hey All,
Here's a blog posting about some potential scorekeeper shenanigans in a D3AA semifinal game out here.

Did Serra goof in win over Diamond Ranch? *Update: Reaction from coach Mike James
By Fred Robledo on March 1, 2011 9:44 AM | Permalink | Comments (22) | ShareThis

Scorebook error?: In Diamond Ranch's 82-70 overtime loss to Gardena Serra in Saturday's Division 3AA girls semifinal at North Torrance HS, there were controversial scorebook issues that may have had a direct outcome in the game. In fact, in a letter addressed to Serra principal Mike Wagner on behalf of several Diamond Ranch parents (which I obtained), they want an apology, even suggesting that Serra should forfeit over what they feel was a huge injustice. Diamond Ranch coach Mike James explained what happened to me on Monday, but said the school is not protesting, though he is upset at how the events unfolded.

Clarification: coach Mike James filed a protest after the game, which was immediately turned down, he said. When I called CIF on Monday to ask if anything had been filed in regards to the game, they said no. What I gather from this is there was obviously a decision made after the game, and it ended there.

What happened: James said that Serra's leading scorer Sierra Thompson (28 points) fouled out with just under a minute to play in Saturday's game. James said Thompson left the game, sat on the bench, and put a jacket on looking distraught. At that time Serra's scorekeeper alerted the Serra bench, saying it only had Thompson for three fouls. James immediately challenged, noting his scorekeeper and bench scorekeeper had Thompson for five fouls. James said while looking at Serra's book, he also noted Serra had Diamond Ranch players marked with fouls who never played in the game. The officials gathered and determined the "home" book was the book of record, allowing Thompson back into the game with only three fouls. Thompson then hit a 3-pointer with 13 seconds left to give Serra a two-point lead. Chelsea Barnes scored in the closing seconds to send the game into overtime. Thompson then scored 10 points in overtime to seal the victory. James knows there is nothing he can do now, but he said his athletic director watched the game on video and sure enough, he claims Thompson had five fouls.

Coach Mike James responds: Just to make sure that everyone is clear on this situation. There was a protest filed by Diamond Ranch. It was turned down. The ruling was that it was an officials judgment to allow this player to re-enter the game. The Diamond Ranch scorekeeper was checking with the official book to make sure that they matched up. All of a sudden they didn't match up in the 4th quarter with 32 seconds left in the game. There were players from Diamond Ranch who had fouls and didn't even play in the game. There were also players that fouled out who only had 3 fouls. This was a great game between 2 great teams. Someone has to win and someone has to lose. The bigger question is are we really to the point where winning at all cost is more important than sportsmanship and integrity. For these kids to have to lose in this manner just makes for a hard pill to swallow. Especially when the video clearly shows this player had fouled out.
CIF can't just turn a blind eye to situations like this. Once you get to this level of the playoffs we have 3 man officiating crews and neutral sites. They need to take the next step and have a neutral party as the official scorer. This will of course will not help us this season since what is done is done. I just want people reading this to know that Diamond Ranch did talk to CIF officials about this situation. With all the evidence that was presented to them they have to think that at the very least there is SOMETHING there, and they need to make some changes in the near future.

Sincerely,

Michael James
Diamond Ranch Girls Basketball

: Let me just say that as a veteran scorekeeper I am totally mortified at the potential of misconduct that allegedly occurred at this game.This situation is a black mark on table people nationwide.That being said-How do you prevent this situation from occurring in your games?

[BktBallRef]

It's usually not difficult for a crew to remember who called how many fouls on a star player. In a second round game last week, a player had a triple-double (27 pts, 15 rebs, 10 blocks). She also had 4 fouls, the first two called by me and the second two called by my U2. If there had been a problem with the book and her fouls, I can assure you that 4 would have been the correct answer.

Might not be quite as easy for a role player but I can usually recall who have called fouls on.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by SCalScoreKeeper

: Let me just say that as a veteran scorekeeper I am totally mortified at the potential of misconduct that allegedly occurred at this game.This situation is a black mark on table people nationwide.That being said-How do you prevent this situation from occurring in your games?

Calling it misconduct is jumping the gun just a bit, don't you think? It may have just been careless or sloppy....as might be suggested by all of the other supposed errors.

If the scorers had been comparing records after every entry like they should, this would have been resolved without incident at the time of the fouls.

The protesting coach should train his scorer to do their job correctly to prevent such issues.

[Jurassic Referee]

Damn, a high school scorer may have screwed up. Quick, get the pitchforks, light the torches....we're off to the castle.

I think the CIF should fly in chseagle for ALL playoff games. I know that would be a tough task for anybody but I'm sure he's up to it.

[JugglingReferee]

WOW.

There is some serious gross incompetence by this table crew. There's no denying that.

By having fouls recorded for people that didn't even play in the game definitely should raise eyebrows at minimum, and demand a protest - even if known that it won't go anywhere.

If the items presented above are true, then at least 8 errors were made.

The lesson to be learned is the tough-to-swallow pill that the Vs could have prevented this by sitting a person next to the H book and watch them record everything fine. That's WAY beyond due diligence, seeing how the first 3 quarters were deemed correct.

I have no problems questioning how this happened and one can only wonder if it wasn't done intentionally. Ya, that's a tough accusation, but how does something like that happen? What possible set of legitimate thought processes cause this to happen?

[Nevadaref]

Don't know about Socal, but I can tell you that in a couple of the Norcal sections an alternate official is assigned to the postseason games at the neutral sites. This official sits at the table and keeps a record of the AP arrow as well as can track some other game notes such as TOs and team fouls in each half. There is no neutral book at the moment. There are only home and visiting books. It would be very simple to have the alt official keep the official book. That is what was done in MD when I was there years ago.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

Calling it misconduct is jumping the gun just a bit, don't you think? It may have just been careless or sloppy....as might be suggested by all of the other supposed errors.

Misfeasance, malfeasance, and nonfeasance are all kinds of misconduct, don't you think? They were obliged not to be careless or sloppy.

[SCalScoreKeeper]

I did not accuse outright misconduct my friends-that's why I used the word "Potential" in my post. If the first three quarters were correct in both books that raises some serious questions in my mind. In my games this is why I started putting the player # next to the corresponding team foul. We use the Mark V's at my school so you have to create a space in that column for it to work.

Nevadaref,
We do not use the alternate official down here in the Southern Section. It was suggested by some people on the newspaper website I found this post from that neutral scorekeepers be used. Its an idea that would fall flat on its face in this budgetary environment but one I would be in total agreement with.

[grunewar]

Originally Posted by SCalScoreKeeper

In my games this is why I started putting the player # next to the corresponding team foul.

When I have good, conscientious scorekeepers in my Rec Leagues, I make this similar recommendation to write the number in the block over the foul number or in the blank. Certainly helps minimize these types of issues and is easier to trace back.

Of course, I'm just a lowly official and don't have a Scorekeepers "Rule Book" or "Case Book."

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Misfeasance, malfeasance, and nonfeasance are all kinds of misconduct, don't you think? They were obliged not to be careless or sloppy.

I interpreting "misconduct" as a conscious act...purposeful and deliberate.

I don't view unintended errors, whether due to incompetence, sloppiness or other reasons, as "misconduct".

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I interpreting "misconduct" as a conscious act...purposeful and deliberate.

I don't view unintended errors, whether due to incompetence, sloppiness or other reasons, as "misconduct".

OK, but your definition is idiosyncratic. Research misconduct, for example, includes negligent plagiarism and negligent omissions of relevant results.

[chseagle]

Originally Posted by grunewar

Of course, I'm just a lowly official and don't have a Scorekeepers "Rule Book" or "Case Book."

So is this the start of a petition to get one published?

[APG]

Originally Posted by chseagle

So is this the start of a petition to get one published?

No

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by chseagle

So is this the start of a petition to get one published?

You have to have a poll first before you can petition for anything. See the FAQs. It's a forum rule.

[APG]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

You have to have a poll first before you can petition for anything. See the FAQs. It's a forum rule.

Better be a scientific poll to boot