Couldn't help but think of todays...

[Rich]

Originally Posted by KMBReferee

The one @ :54 is definitely a blocking foul; I don't know what in the world Poly was complaining about on that one. The lead could have called that one in his sleep. And the guy narrating the piece doesn't have a clue of what he's talking about.

My goodness, I can't believe an official could look at this video (at :54) and not see a PC foul.

I see nothing on the video at 1:24 that suggests a foul. I don't have the L's look at the play, though.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

My goodness, I can't believe an official could look at this video (at :54) and not see a PC foul.

I see nothing on the video at 1:24 that suggests a foul. I don't have the L's look at the play, though.

Agree....easy PC. You don't even have to look twice or in slow-mo to break it down...it is obvious.

As for the foul at 1:24, the camera angle is inconclusive. It is somewhat suggestive of body contact but it is possible that the primary force was through the ball. The lead was in a great position to make the right call.

[JRutledge]

PC foul all the way on the first play.

Cannot tell anything from the blocked shot.

Peace

[KMBReferee]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

My goodness, I can't believe an official could look at this video (at :54) and not see a PC foul.

How can that be a PC foul? The center slid towards her to cut her off, and was never set. She clearly undercut the ballhandler as she was going up for the shot. That's a blocking foul on the center.

[APG]

Originally Posted by KMBReferee

How can that be a PC foul? The center slid towards her to cut her off, and was never set. She clearly undercut the ballhandler as she was going up for the shot. That's a blocking foul on the center.

Pause it at the 54 second mark. The defender has two feet on the ground and torso facing the defender. She slides laterally (as is her right due to gaining LGP) to maintain her LGP. At the 55 second mark, she still has her torso in the path of the dribbler when the dribbler makes contact with the defender. The dribbler is not airborne when the contact was initiated. There is no undercutting of an airborne player.

Lastly, being set has nothing to do with being in LGP to take a charge. If you use that language with players and coaches, you're just perpetuating a myth.

[KMBReferee]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

Pause it at the 54 second mark. The defender has two feet on the ground and torso facing the defender. She slides laterally (as is her right due to gaining LGP) to maintain her LGP. At the 55 second mark, she still has her torso in the path of the dribbler when the dribbler makes contact with the defender. The dribbler is not airborne when the contact was initiated. There is no undercutting of an airborne player.

Lastly, being set has nothing to do with being in LGP to take a charge. If you use that language with players and coaches, you're just perpetuating a myth.

You can not simply pause it at :54 and think you can make an accurate call on that play. Movement is still occurring. And according to the legal guarding position rule, you can only move laterally or obliquely provided you do not move towards the opponent when contact occurs.

When you cut off a slasher, you're moving towards that player. Note: the rule doesn't say move forward; it says moving towards. You must stop the motion before contact occurs (that's what I mean by "set"), and the center didn't. And since she didn't, she is liable for the contact.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by KMBReferee

You can not simply pause it at :54 and think you can make an accurate call on that play. Movement is still occurring. And according to the legal guarding position rule, you can only move laterally or obliquely provided you do not move towards the opponent when contact occurs.

When you cut off a slasher, you're moving towards that player. Note: the rule doesn't say move forward; it says moving towards. You must stop the motion before contact occurs (that's what I mean by "set"), and the center didn't. And since she didn't, she is liable for the contact.

The movement I see is pretty much at a right angle to the path of the dribbler.
Legal guarding position was obtained, and the dribbler created the contact.

[APG]

Originally Posted by KMBReferee

You can not simply pause it at :54 and think you can make an accurate call on that play. Movement is still occurring. And according to the legal guarding position rule, you can only move laterally or obliquely provided you do not move towards the opponent when contact occurs.

When you cut off a slasher, you're moving towards that player. Note: the rule doesn't say move forward; it says moving towards. You must stop the motion before contact occurs (that's what I mean by "set"), and the center didn't. And since she didn't, she is liable for the contact.

All I can say then, is you're seeing a different play than everyone. IMO, the player obtains LGP at the 54 second mark. As is her right by obtaining it, she is allowed to move laterally to maintain it. I don't have her moving towards the defender because she takes the contact in the torso. That fact that she was moving or wasn't "set" has no baring on this play because she has LGP. She doesn't get to the position after the player went airborne because the contact originated before the player was airborne.

I will try and make a slow motion clip of the play to make it easier.

[KMBReferee]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

All I can say then, is you're seeing a different play than everyone. IMO, the player obtains LGP at the 54 second mark. As is her right by obtaining it, she is allowed to move laterally to maintain it. I don't have her moving towards the defender because she takes the contact in the torso. That fact that she was moving or wasn't "set" has no baring on this play because she has LGP. She doesn't get to the position after the player went airborne because the contact originated before the player was airborne.

I will try and make a slow motion clip of the play to make it easier.

I'm seeing the right play. The issue isn't what we see as much as how we enforce the rule.

The fact that she was moving DOES have barring on this play, because the movement is TOWARDS the ballhandler. There's no ifs, ands, or buts on this; that's the exception the LGP rule makes. And the center was moving towards the player and never stopped the movement. The center is not allowed to move laterally if it's towards the ballhandler.

[walter]

I guess you are going to stand alone. Since it is the dribbler, time and distance don't matter. I see the secondary defender, after establishing LGP, moving laterally, beating the ballhandler to the spot and the contact is clearly center torso. I have PC without a doubt. There is nothing that says a defender has to be set/still to get the PC call. As for the other play, from the angle we have on the video, I have a clean black and play on.

[APG]

Originally Posted by KMBReferee

I'm seeing the right play. The issue isn't what we see as much as how we enforce the rule.

The fact that she was moving DOES have barring on this play, because the movement is TOWARDS the ballhandler. There's no ifs, ands, or buts on this; that's the exception the LGP rule makes. And the center was moving towards the player and never stopped the movement. The center is not allowed to move laterally if it's towards the ballhandler.

I don't know what your definition of towards is.



To me, towards the defender is any movement in the blue region with the defender being the N in the picture. If a defender has LGP, they may move in any direction (including the straight line) in the white to maintain that position. I have the defender moving laterally to maintain. She legally gets to the spot before the dribbler and is there before she's airborne.

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by KMBReferee

When you cut off a slasher, you're moving towards that player.

That maybe the most ignorant statement I've ever read on this forum.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

That maybe the most ignorant statement I've ever read on this forum.

Yeah, I don't get it. How else would you play defense.

To be quite honest, that defender made one of the best defensive plays I've seen all season and she was rewarded with a personal foul. Too bad, really.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

That maybe the most ignorant statement I've ever read on this forum.

I agree. I can't believe i'm hearing this kind of interpretation from someone. It is so wrong in so many ways it seems likes a rookie coach or men's league player talking instead of an official.

If he's truly an official, it is no wonder we have so much trouble getting consistency (across officials) when we have officials that are calling things like that and using terminology...terminology that actually reveals he really doesn't know the rule but is winging it based on common mythology.

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by KMBReferee

I'm seeing the right play. The issue isn't what we see as much as how we enforce the rule.

The fact that she was moving DOES have barring on this play, because the movement is TOWARDS the ballhandler. There's no ifs, ands, or buts on this; that's the exception the LGP rule makes. And the center was moving towards the player and never stopped the movement. The center is not allowed to move laterally if it's towards the ballhandler.

Yes, there is a big "if". IF you are really an official and calling this play a block (Even after watching it on video repeatedly), then you are part of the problem.

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I agree. I can't believe i'm hearing this kind of interpretation from someone. It is so wrong in so many ways it seems likes a rookie coach or men's league player talking instead of an official.

If he's truly an official, it is no wonder we have so much trouble getting consistency (across officials) when we have officials that are calling things like that and using terminology...terminology that actually reveals he really doesn't know the rule but is winging it based on common mythology.

+1. KMB has mysteriously disappeared from the thread.

I have no idea how any official who watches this play on video after the fact really thinks the play at :54 was a block. The defender gaining LGP and moving to the spot where the dribbler is going to be is not "Moving toward the dribbler". It is moving toward the place where the dribbler will be momentarily.