Washington versus Washington State

[chseagle]

Can someone please explain to me exactly why there was a Personal Foul & Simultaneous Technicals during tonight's UW-WSU game in Seattle?

I was watching, but unfortunately had someone in the room talking a bit loudly on the phone so was unable to hear the commentary.

[JRutledge]

You should have tased them!!!

Peace

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

You should have tased them!!!

Naw, then they just flop around and make a lot of loud weird noises. I'm thinking maybe them rubber bullets that knock the breath out of them. Thoughts?

[dahoopref]

WSU#00 fouls UW#11 on a rebound. Teammate UW#1 takes exception to the foul and pushes WSU#00. WSU#00 then has some "choice words" for UW#1.

Officials penalize:

WSU#00 for the initial foul and an Unsporting TF.
UW#1 for a Dead Ball Contact TF; this becomes his 5th PF.

First: UW#11 shoots FTs for the initial foul and UW#2 for the Unsporting TF (total of 4 FTs).
Second: WSU#1 shoots 2 FTs for the Dead Ball Contact TF. When play resumes, they get the ball at halfcourt at the division line.

The question is whether the Dead Ball Contact TF (by UW#1) and the Unsporting TF (by WSU#00) are penalized as a Double TF? The two acts are treated separately. The Dead Ball Contact TF is the more serious of the acts and the offended team (in this case WSU) gets the ball when all the penalties are adjudicated.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by dahoopref

WSU#00 fouls UW#11 on a rebound. Teammate UW#1 takes exception to the foul and pushes WSU#00. WSU#00 then has some "choice words" for UW#1.

Officials penalize:

WSU#00 for the initial foul and an Unsporting TF.
UW#1 for a Dead Ball Contact TF; this becomes his 5th PF.

First: UW#11 shoots FTs for the initial foul and UW#2 for the Unsporting TF (total of 4 FTs).
Second: WSU#1 shoots 2 FTs for the Dead Ball Contact TF. When play resumes, they get the ball at halfcourt at the division line.

The question is whether the Dead Ball Contact TF (by UW#1) and the Unsporting TF (by WSU#00) are penalized as a Double TF? The two acts are treated separately. The Dead Ball Contact TF is the more serious of the acts and the offended team (in this case WSU) gets the ball when all the penalties are adjudicated.

By rule, DFs are two "like kind" fouls. IOW, either two TFs or two PFs. I don't see anything that would prevent a db contact foul from working as a DF with an unsporting technical.

Unless there's an active AR from the NCAA that says otherwise.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

By rule, DFs are two "like kind" fouls. IOW, either two TFs or two PFs. I don't see anything that would prevent a db contact foul from working as a DF with an unsporting technical.

Unless there's an active AR from the NCAA that says otherwise.

Based on the desciption of the play and the fact that 4 technical free throws were shot they were treated as separate acts. Not sure if the order of the free throws was correct though.

But to further explain for anybody who may be confused, UW's dead ball contact T is penalized by a division line throw-in by WSU. That became the new POI as a reference point as what to do after all the free throws were shot.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Based on the desciption of the play and the fact that 4 technical free throws were shot they were treated as separate acts. Not sure if the order of the free throws was correct though.

But to further explain for anybody who may be confused, UW's dead ball contact T is penalized by a division line throw-in by WSU. That became the new POI as a reference point as what to do after all the free throws were shot.

Agreed. The order of penalty is not determined by the severity of the penalty.

In my game, unless the two dead ball events happened quite a bit apart (chronologically), I'm going with a DF. But that doesn't mean I'd be right and they'd be wrong.

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Agreed. The order of penalty is not determined by the severity of the penalty.

In my game, unless the two dead ball events happened quite a bit apart (chronologically), I'm going with a DF. But that doesn't mean I'd be right and they'd be wrong.

Because the penalty for a dead ball contact T is different than for an unsporting T I think you'll find most times they will be treated as 2 distincts acts in an NCAA game.

[dahoopref]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

By rule, DFs are two "like kind" fouls. IOW, either two TFs or two PFs. I don't see anything that would prevent a db contact foul from working as a DF with an unsporting technical.

Unless there's an active AR from the NCAA that says otherwise.

I couldn't find anything in the casebook to supports this, but I'll keep looking. I think because the acts were a few seconds apart, the crew didn't go with a DTF.

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Because the penalty for a dead ball contact T is different than for an unsporting T I think you'll find most times they will be treated as 2 distincts acts in an NCAA game.

This is what I thought while the penalties were being ajudicated.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

Because the penalty for a dead ball contact T is different than for an unsporting T I think you'll find most times they will be treated as 2 distincts acts in an NCAA game.

Good point, and if and when I start working games with NCAA rules, it makes sense to do it that way.