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Thu Jun 03, 2004, 04:22pm
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zebraman, Ron Pilo, Snaqwells?, redneckref, Scott, Carl and others that officiate in Washington State:
I shot an email off to the WIAA Executive Board yesterday and included a CC to Todd Stordahl, the director of officials in WA state...(WOA). In the e I explained the displeasure many officials have had with the implementation of the new 3-man mechanic. A few points I listed were as follows: * The new 3-man mechanic was basically put into play with little imput from the men and women who will actually be affected by it, the officials on the court. * The mandatory clinics are being held in only two locations across the state...thus putting a finacial burden on officials already asked to take a pay cut to implement this program. * The required clinics are being held in the month of June, with the camp fee of $100 being due on June 1st. This gives little time for officials to plan for time off and only 3 dates available to attend. If in fact the WIAA stands fast by these requirements...we will have some very qualified officials sittng at home during the Washington State H.S. Basketball Tournament this year...due to not being able to attend these June clinics. If you have any additional concerns...please feel free to go to WIAA.com and e mail members of the staff with your comments. Todd Stordahl sent me an e today asking me to call him to "discuss this matter". I appreciate his quick reply and am looking forward to talking to him. (I called, but his voice mail was full)
__________________
Dan Ivey Tri-City Sports Officials Asso. (TCSOA) Member since 1989 Richland, WA 
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Thu Jun 03, 2004, 04:47pm
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I'm sure his voicemail will be full for quite a while!!! Another stinky thing the WOA has done is refuse to sanction any other camps...the Evergreen Board has sponsored a camp for local officials at Prairie HS for about 6 years...the powerpoint presentation which will be used at all WOA sanctioned camps was developed by Steve Brown and Dave Slorey specifically for the EBOA camp, and yet Stordahl will not sanction the EBOA Prairie camp, even tho "we" developed his curriculum! Figure that one out...Dave Slorey even offered to pay the $100 WOA fee per camper out of our local proceeds in order to get the camp sanctioned...no go...I really don't get it...I think this year is gonna be a little testy around the state...
PS: I know, I know...I'm not one of the ones you listed, but I am in WA state and know a little bit about the State tournament process...
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Thu Jun 03, 2004, 05:11pm
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Quote:
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Tue Jun 08, 2004, 09:55am
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Actually there is another camp in the Battle Ground area.....
I personally think this has been a long time coming. When state sanctioned camps first started there were, if I recall, about 8 or 9 camps offered all over the state. None of these camp were a requirement and were poorly attended. As time went on the number of camps became fewer and fewer until there were only 2. Even then the attendance dwindled in numbers, so the state has stepped up and said fine if you won't volunteer to step up we will make camp attendance a requirement. Funny thing has happened......The Spokane area which usually had about 20 officials at their camp now have over 60. The Seattle camp also has over 60. Battle Ground can handle about 20. So that's 140 officials attending camps, getting the same message and training. Now, you may not like the way this requirement has come about, but after years of officials across this state not attending camps, I say it's about time. I have personally seen the level of officiating at the state tourney deteriorate. Don't get me wrong there are officials that definately belong there, but there are also officials the probably don't. Could communication have been better and more timely, sure it could. However it wasn't and there's nothing we can do about that. We as leaders in this state need to step up and support what is happening. It's only going to make us better. [Edited by Ron Pilo on Jun 8th, 2004 at 10:58 AM]
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Tue Jun 08, 2004, 11:37am
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I agree that the implementation has a lot to be desired, but Todd Stordahl is stuck in the middle. It was the director of the WIAA that decided to make 3-person mandatory at the state tournaments (and districts too I believe) without addressing how it would be implemented at the local levels. Todd was given the task of figuring out how to make it work. Todd speaks the company line, but he probably feels a little frustrated with the way it's being done at times too. He is trying to follow his marching papers while working with officials, school athletic directors, the WOA executive board and the WIAA. IMHO, he has been put in a no-win situation.
I agree with Ron P. that WOA camp attendance has been light in past years, but making it a requirement in order to work state tournaments isn't the long-term answer for that. Many officials have been going to camps other than the WOA camp. Obviously, they have been finding more value in the other camps and not enough value in WOA camps. Besides, this year will probably be the only year with an upward spike in attendance at WOA camps. Attendance may be exactly the reason that they didn't certify other camps. Ron Pilo's own camp (SOWB) has received rave reviews from our Snohomish County Officials who have attended it and I would think it would be a prime candidate for certification. Just a question though Ron - if you're association is concerned about WOA camp attendance, why do you offer one that would appear to "compete" with the WOA camp and possibly draw campers away from the WOA camp? Not criticizing, just asking if you've thought about that. As far as state tournament officiating deteriorating.... I don't see that deteroriation from my knothole - and that wasn't the driver for this. I watched several of the tournaments this year and thought the officiating was fantastic. The driver for 3-person was that Mike Colabrese (WIAA director) saw too much rough play at the 3A and 4A boys tournaments (where our state's best officials are) and felt that 3-person needed to go in now. I do think almost all officials support 3-person, but most probably have a severe dislike for the way it's being put in. It's unfortunate that the "local details" (whether or not any regular-season games will be 3-person in each region) is left up to the local assignors and A.D's. It's a hodge-podge approach rather than implementing a state-wide uniform approach. How much chance does a "high-school-only" official have to do real well at state when they will have about 5 3-person games under their belt when the state tourney begins? It would have been much more fair to mandate that ALL games be 3-person, even if the pay cut was mandatory for all games. In my local area, I have heard that the local schools don't want to do ANY 3-person during the regular season so our high school refs will be pretty darn green at 3-person when the state tourney begins. Yeah, they can work 3-person at our summer tournaments and all that, but they will still be thinking about positioning and coverage areas while the "college officials" are in automatic mode and just calling the game. I've always heard "college officials" talk about how hard it is to switch back to 2-person for high school games. Now the "pain" of switching back and forth is being moved to the backbone of our state's officiating community - high school-only officials. It's also unfortunate that officials have to take a huge 3-year pay cut (for the games which will be 3-person) with no guarantee of staying 3-person after the 3-year trial period. Sacrifice with a pay-off is one thing .. sacrifice with no change at the end would be pointless. The state of Nevada just went back to 2-person after trying 3-person locally for a while and I fear that we might end up in the same boat. The drop in state allocations (12 officials at each tourney rather than 16) does not bother me because I think any official going to state deserves to work all four days. Having been on both sides of the fence (sent home after two days and also having worked a state championship game), I know how it feels to be sent home and also how it feels to work all four days. No matter how much pride you feel in making it to state, you feel like a loser if you do "two and out." Hard questions about details of this 3-person implmentation need to be asked at the Aug 13 WOA meeting. Our association is sending several representatives and our assignor to make sure we understand it all clearly. That meeting is your chance to air your concerns, try to understand how it will all work and to make it clear that officials should have more involvement in the process next time. Z [Edited by zebraman on Jun 8th, 2004 at 02:29 PM]
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Tue Jun 08, 2004, 11:48am
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I will say that I agree with going to 3-person, but don't agree with the way it is being implemented either...however, I am going to be a clinician at the Battle Ground Camp that was added to the WOA list - I guess they are desperate for clinicians - because I support what the state is trying to do...I feel for Stordahl because he is stuck in the middle trying to implement this, but this isn't all the fault of the WIAA/WOA...there are a lot of AD's and League Commisioners around the state being total jack-a$$es about the whole process also (and a few officials, unfortunately)...like I said before, it's gonna get "testy" next season...
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Tue Jun 08, 2004, 01:07pm
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I totaly agree w/Z and as a college official and think it is best for the game to go 3 person as it will help improve to quality of the overall officiating. I have mixed feelings about the drop in the number of officials that will be able to go to the state touranment.
Strodhal is the one who is going to take the heat because the schools don't want to pay for the 3rd official and the officials don't want to take the pay cut. I think the 3 year implementation will be the best solution but I have talked with a few officials that say it is not worth having to be at the gym at 5:30pm to watch th JV game and then do the varsity game and only get paid $33. It will be interesting come November to see who shows up.
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Tue Jun 08, 2004, 01:25pm
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Z-man
The opinions expressed in the above post are my own and not the party line of the SOWB.........However I do believe that many, not all, in my group would agree with me. As far as the SOWB Camp is concerned, it started out as an avenue for our officials to improve and has done just that. Fortunately we have had success and others from around the area want that training as well. I don't believe we are competing with the WOA camps, but we might be. The old adage "You can please some of the people all of the time, you can please all the people some of the time, but you can never please all of the people all of the time". " will be ringing true all summer and into next season. Of that I am sure.
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Tue Jun 08, 2004, 01:33pm
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I hope that they do whatever is needed to make 3 person a reality in Washington State. The money is crap already. So we get a slightly smaller pile of crap- so what.
As to the WOA camps- I attended a couple of them last year and thought they did a decent job presenting info and helping campers become better officials (at a very reasonable price) But I will say that most of the people attending were not the guys I saw in Tacoma in March. Mostly we were lower and mid level officials. I didn't see much that was specificly offered by the WOA that I did not get at the other camps I attended. Just more of the same. A little bit of classroom presentations by good speakers, a coach speaking and taking questions, then on to our games with clincians (some outstanding, some not so) offering feedback and guidance. Videotaping a couple of games as well.
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Tue Jun 08, 2004, 04:11pm
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Quote:
Like I said before, I don't think any officials are against 3-person. However, it's the way things were implemented (AKA shoved down officials throats) that is getting resistance. What's being implemented is an even weaker version of the proposal that official's associations rejected three years ago. It is now perceived that officials have no voice. Even those who would support anything that came from the WOA are bothered about the dictatorial nature of the implementation. Schools have said, "we don't want 3-person if it costs any more than 2-person. It's not worth it to us." So it's being put in anyway only it's coming out of the officials hides instead. Z [Edited by zebraman on Jun 8th, 2004 at 05:35 PM]
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Tue Jun 08, 2004, 05:08pm
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We have been fighting to get pay increase for several years and were able to get a small increase to mileage last year and that was pulling teeth from some districs. I think if they stick to 3 person, we will be lucky to be back up to the pay were last year and that to me is like a slap in the face.
I am willing to take a decrees in pay for a short time if it means that we will be compensated in the end. Next year we will not loose that much money because from what I hear at least in our assoc we are only going to use 3 person for the last few weeks of the regualr season so we can get ready for districs, then in districs and in state. (5-7 games maybe before playoffs)
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Tue Jun 08, 2004, 10:10pm
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posted by zebraman
Ron Pilo's own camp (SOWB) has received rave reviews from our Snohomish County Officials who have attended it and I would think it would be a prime candidate for certification. Just a question though Ron - if you're association is concerned about WOA camp attendance, why do you offer one that would appear to "compete" with the WOA camp and possibly draw campers away from the WOA camp? Not criticizing, just asking if you've thought about that. Just a couple of thoughts on this. First I am not speaking from a lot of experience with either the politics or camps. I am a JV official in the Seattle area, and the SOWB camp was excellent for me. It has some definite advantages over the WOA for me. The cost was more affordable which helps those of us on a tight budget. The camp was in August which works out great, as July is a terrible time for me. It featured many of the individuals who evaluate me during the season, giving me a chance to find out what they wanted and opportunites to work on specific items for advancement to varsity level. Next year I hope to have more money and attend two camps, either return to Ellensburg or go WOA. As many officials as there are, I would think there would need to be more camps rather than less. I have found them to be invaluable so far. While Ron was a past President, the camp is sponsered by the SOWB organization not him. I found your other comments interesting. It almost sounds like I will make as much or slightly more for my time as a JV offcial. Hoping I have the chance sometime to meet you in person and either watch or be watched.
__________________
Ron
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Wed Jun 09, 2004, 01:32am
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Quote:
I agree wholeheartedly, I hear that SOWB puts on a great camp. I was just kind of wondering outloud about Ron's Mr. Pilo's reasons for not enough officials attending WOA camp. The WOA camp has only been $100.00 for quite a while and I think the cost to SOWB officials at the SOWB camp is $150... yet many (even our SCBOWBO officials) choose to attend SOWB camp over the WOA camp. So maybe the WOA camp is lacking something. I went to WOA camp last year and it was OK... but lacking in many ways. I know that the WOA executive board has been disappointed in recent attendance at WOA camps... but maybe it isn't that officials don't care (we have LOTS of officials going to other camps), but that they are finding more value at other camps. I push the WOA camp real hard every year to our group, yet our officials continue to go elsewhere (except for our state tournament officials this year who have to go - and are complaining bitterly about it). :-) I have big concerns for retaining our "mid-level" officials under this 3-person implementation. I have heard that many associations will have the same three officials work both the JV and Varsity games. This will take JV games away from good upcoming officials and put them on the Frosh game instead. I also see it creating more of a "caste system." Those on the "varsity list" (we don't have a formal varsity list, but there is still a cut-off I suppose) will get to do some 3-person games and all the others will "only" do 2-person. So the officials doing the non-varsity games who are working their way up don't even get to practice 3-person at the lower levels. There are just so many things that worry me concerning retaining our mid-level group and attracting new officials. I hope I am wrong. I'm going along (I'm even going to the WOA camp this summer even though I'm ineligible for state this year) and am trying my hardest to be completely supportive... but every time I talk to one of our officials (or officials from other areas of this state), I hear how ticked off everyone is about their lack of involvement, their pay cut and the way the proposal that was rejected is now being put in anyway. I'd say that I've heard 95% against and I've probably talked to 40 officials about it. Would love to meet you and/or work a game with you sometime. Z [Edited by zebraman on Jun 9th, 2004 at 02:36 AM]
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Wed Jun 09, 2004, 08:23am
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I will probably be a clinician at the Seattle Camp in July..........So I suspect we will meet. Look forward to it. Perhaps you will be in my group and I will get an opportunity to pass on some of the awesome knowledge and experience I had gained over my many years of officiating.
(THE PREVIOUS SENTANCE WAS TYPED WITH MY TOUNGE IN MY CHEEK) See ya!
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