Questions

[Jake80]

I was observing a game last night preceeding the game I officiated. A couple of situations came up which got me thinking about how I would have called the situations.

Question 1: I know this should be easy but I can't seem to find the correct rule. When a player is at the free throw line at what point has the thrower violated for stepping over the line? If the thrower steps over the line while bouncing the ball in preparation to shoot is it a violation or are they allowed to place their foot behind the line and still attempt the throw?

Question 2: Team A has a throw in from their frontcourt. A1 inbounds to A2. A2 has control in the front court. He mistakenly thinks the basket in his backcourt is his goal. A2 dribbles in for an uncontested layup in the opponents basket. Team A takes the ball out and play continues. The officials did not make a call (perhaps their judgement was A2 didn't have control in the frontcourt-who knows). If the officials recognized that an error was made in not calling the backcourt violation could they cancel the score as listed in the correctable errors section or is this not a correctable error?

[bard]

Question 1: When a player is at the free throw line at what point has the thrower violated for stepping over the line? If the thrower steps over the line while bouncing the ball in preparation to shoot is it a violation or are they allowed to place their foot behind the line and still attempt the throw?

Your reference is 9-1-7. The player violates when the foot goes over the line. (For elementary games, I like to give a warning, if possible.) The violation occurs when the foot crosses the plane. (Not that the foot does not technically have to touch the floor on the other side of the line.

Question 2: Team A has a throw in from their frontcourt. A1 inbounds to A2. A2 has control in the front court. He mistakenly thinks the basket in his backcourt is his goal. A2 dribbles in for an uncontested layup in the opponents basket. Team A takes the ball out and play continues. The officials did not make a call (perhaps their judgement was A2 didn't have control in the frontcourt-who knows). If the officials recognized that an error was made in not calling the backcourt violation could they cancel the score as listed in the correctable errors section or is this not a correctable error?

There are better people to answer correctable error questions than me, but of course the basket should never have counted, as the ball would have become dead with A2's backcourt violation. However, I would translate 2-10-1-e, erroneously counting or canceling a score, as applying in this situation, and therefore cancel the score.

The real veterans on this board will be able to answer this one better than me!

[DownTownTonyBrown]

Question 1: Answer Rule 9.1.7 After the ball is placed at the disposal of a free thrower.... shall not have either foot beyond the vertical plane of the edge of the free-throw line which is farther from the basket....

Question 2: Answer Yes, I think this should be corrected with Rule 2.10.1e. Call the back court violation, take away the points, and give the ball to Team B for throw-in.

Sometimes the stupid things just catch you off-guard and your whistle becomes lost or non-functional.

[Schmidt MJ]

Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown
Question 1: Answer Rule 9.1.7 After the ball is placed at the disposal of a free thrower.... shall not have either foot beyond the vertical plane of the edge of the free-throw line which is farther from the basket....

Question 2: Answer Yes, I think this should be corrected with Rule 2.10.1e. Call the back court violation, take away the points, and give the ball to Team B for throw-in.

Sometimes the stupid things just catch you off-guard and your whistle becomes lost or non-functional.

I agree with you on Play #1 but I'm not so sure I agree with you on Play #2. I don't believe this is a correctable error as defined by rule. If an offical mistakes a 3-pt. try for a 2-pt. try or vice versa, or if a basket is made right before or after a foul is called then you could rerroneously count or cancel a score. But if you simply miss a backcourt violation you can't wipe out a score and go back and penalize the violation. What if a player traveled on a drive to the hoop and the official missed the travel. Would you then go back and take away the basket and penalize the travel. I could be wrong but I don't think the correctable rules apply here.

[ChuckElias]

Situation #2 is not correctable, in my opinion. The error that occured was not the counting of the score; after all, a live ball passed through the basket. The error was in not calling a violation prior to that. If the officials don't notice it until after A has inbounded the ball after the score, I don't think you can go back and call the violation.

Chuck

[Jurassic Referee]

Mr. Elias is correct,as usual.The covering rules reference is R4-5-4.

[ChuckElias]

You're not gonna start being nice to me, now, are ya JR? Wouldn't want you to go and break that rotten streak!

As Terrance Mann said in Field of Dreams: Peace, love, dope!

Just so no one gets upset, I'm not endorsing or condoning illegal herbs. I was just trying to come up with a hippy quote.

[Edited by ChuckElias on Nov 13th, 2002 at 01:48 PM]

[bard]

Thanks, Chuck. I knew I could count on one of the elder statesmen to set me straight!

[BktBallRef]

Agreed.

1- When his foot breaks the plane, prior to the ball hitting the rim or backboard.

2- Not correctable.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
You're not gonna start being nice to me, now, are ya JR? Wouldn't want you to go and break that rotten streak!

As Terrance Mann said in Field of Dreams: Peace, love, dope!

Peace and love to you too,Dope!

-from the kindlier,gentler JR.

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Peace and love to you too,Dope!

-from the kindlier,gentler JR.

Before this season is out, JR will be shot. We'll have to wait until next season to see who shot JR. Will it be Chuck? Or will it be someone else?

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Camron Rust

Before this season is out, JR will be shot. We'll have to wait until next season to see who shot JR. Will it be Chuck? Or will it be someone else?

Could be Chuck, could be anyone of many people who do old
Alfred....errr....JR in. But it doesn't matter, it will
turn out to be just a dream anyway.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Camron Rust
[/B]

Before this season is out, JR will be shot. We'll have to wait until next season to see who shot JR. Will it be Chuck? Or will it be someone else? [/B][/QUOTE]"What,me worry?"

[ScottParks]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
Situation #2 is not correctable, in my opinion. The error that occured was not the counting of the score; after all, a live ball passed through the basket. The error was in not calling a violation prior to that. If the officials don't notice it until after A has inbounded the ball after the score, I don't think you can go back and call the violation.

Chuck

Just make sure you put the points on the board for the correct team!

[just another ref]

Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown
[Sometimes the stupid things just catch you off-guard and your whistle becomes lost or non-functional. [/B]

I think this is very well put. This brings to mind a new question, not about correcting errors but about making a call. When is it too late? In this particular case, the player takes off in the wrong direction, acting like he knows what he is doing. It is understandable not to realize the mistake at first. Suppose you realize the deal as he passes the top of the key, is that too late? As he goes up for the shot, is that too late? Once we had principal pressed into service as an official in her school's 9-12 league. She said, "It's like I'm deer hunting. I'm aiming the gun, and aiming the gun, but by the time I'm sure what I want to shoot at, the deer is gone." I say when in doubt go ahead and pull the trigger.
Better very late than obviously very wrong.