"Pivot-Cheek" - Page 2

Dan_ref · #16 (**permalink**) Sun Nov 10, 2002, 10:21pm

I had a scrimmage Saturday where a player was flat on his back & raised himself off the floor with his feet & shoulders. Very athletic move, sadly he came beack down
before he could get the pass off.

RookieDude · #17 (**permalink**) Sun Nov 10, 2002, 10:34pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan_ref
I had a scrimmage Saturday where a player was flat on his back & raised himself off the floor with his feet & shoulders. Very athletic move, sadly he came beack down
before he could get the pass off.

I believe in gymnastics terminology that is called a "kip up"! (Sp)
Very athletic move! But, I'm not sure that it wouldn't have been a travel anyway...unless he passed the ball while laying on his back and then performed the "kip up".

RD

Dan_ref · #18 (**permalink**) Sun Nov 10, 2002, 10:39pm

Quote:

Originally posted by RookieDude

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan_ref
I had a scrimmage Saturday where a player was flat on his back & raised himself off the floor with his feet & shoulders. Very athletic move, sadly he came beack down
before he could get the pass off.

I believe in gymnastics terminology that is called a "kip up"! (Sp)
Very athletic move! But, I'm not sure that it wouldn't have been a travel anyway...unless he passed the ball while laying on his back and then performed the "kip up".

RD

mmmm, I don't know, I think I would have given it to him just because of the "geeze" factor.

"Geeze, what a great move....hey wait! Is that allowed??!"

Anyway, got a reference for your ruling? I seriously doubt
it's a travel...

Mark Dexter · #19 (**permalink**) Sun Nov 10, 2002, 10:47pm

How about the rule which states you can't attempt to stand up without dribbling the ball?

(Sorry - I'm exhausted, and not moving from my chair to find the rule reference.)

RookieDude · #20 (**permalink**) Sun Nov 10, 2002, 10:48pm

Hmmmmm, you could be right...I was just refering to the rule 4-43-5b...A player holding the ball: "After gaining possession while on the floor and touching with other than hand or foot, may not attempt to get up or stand."

My question was/is...Is "kipping up" attempting to get up or stand.?

RD

Dan_ref · #21 (**permalink**) Sun Nov 10, 2002, 10:51pm

maybe, but I believe if he passes the ball he's ok.
like picking up the pivot foot before passing/shooting.

anyway, my philosophy is any demonstration of athleticism
that I am completely incapable of is legal

rainmaker · #22 (**permalink**) Sun Nov 10, 2002, 11:41pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker
Kid secures ball while lying on her back. She sits up, and then pivots on her rear. Is this legal? I can't remember what we decided, the last time we discussed it. I didn't call it....

By pivoting on her tuckus, do you mean that she rotated her entire body using her tuckus as the center of the circle and her feet described the circle?

Yes, this is the question.

mick · #23 (**permalink**) Mon Nov 11, 2002, 08:08am

Quote:

Originally posted by RookieDude

My question was/is...Is "kipping up" attempting to get up or stand.?

RD

That's exactly the singular objective of a "kip up".

Ref in PA · #24 (**permalink**) Mon Nov 11, 2002, 09:20am

In NFHS, a player on the floor is not allowed to roll. The question I need an answer for is: "Is the person rolling from cheek to cheek?" When a player is standing up, the pivot is usually done on the ball of the foot. On occaision, I have seen players pivot on the heel, then on the ball of the foot, then on the heel again. In essense, the original pivot spot was moved because of the heel/toe action. I have called a travel in those cases - mostly under the explanation of dragging the pivot foot. So, in the case above, if I determine movement from the pivot area, for whatever reason, I would call a travel violation. If the player more or less stays in the same spot, I would allow the pivot action.

Camron Rust · #25 (**permalink**) Mon Nov 11, 2002, 01:52pm

I've got travelling. On the back, a player may sit up. No other movement of the body is allowed. They can't turn around, they are stuck with the direction they are facing. It is essentially the same as rolling over (independent of momentum).

mick · #26 (**permalink**) Mon Nov 11, 2002, 01:57pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Camron Rust
I've got travelling. On the back, a player may sit up. No other movement of the body is allowed. They can't turn around, they are stuck with the direction they are facing. It is essentially the same as rolling over (independent of momentum).

Me too, Camron,
I will let them pivot from the waist; but lift/twist/contort the body below the waist while holding the ball, and I have movement outside the prescribed limits.

mick

Ron Pilo · #27 (**permalink**) Mon Nov 11, 2002, 01:59pm

I believe the situation in the case book (page34) says that the only thing he/she can do in this situation is sit up. If the player once sitting up makes movements in an attempt to avoid a defensive player that causes a "Cheek" to be moved I have a travel.

Jurassic Referee · #28 (**permalink**) Mon Nov 11, 2002, 02:04pm

I guess that calling travelling in this case would really be a bum call then!

mick · #29 (**permalink**) Mon Nov 11, 2002, 02:11pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
I guess that calling travelling in this case would really be a bum call then!

A 1/2-fast bum call.

Mark Dexter · #30 (**permalink**) Mon Nov 11, 2002, 05:32pm

Quote:

Originally posted by RookieDude
Hmmmmm, you could be right...I was just refering to the rule 4-43-5b...A player holding the ball: "After gaining possession while on the floor and touching with other than hand or foot, may not attempt to get up or stand."

My question was/is...Is "kipping up" attempting to get up or stand.?

RD

Yes - that's the rule I was reference.

Just think - what is the (intended) end result of 'kipping up?'

BTW, guys and gals, please - no more discussion on momentum. I just took a physics test today dealing with that very issue, among others