"Pivot-Cheek"

[RecRef]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
I guess that calling travelling in this case would really be a bum call then!

Spent some time in England?

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Mark Dexter
please - no more discussion on momentum. I just took a physics test today dealing with that very issue, among others

So how did the organic chem test go? (I read your away messages every day)

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by RecRef

Spent some time in England?

AAMF,I did.They talk funny over there.

And they like their brownpop warm(shudder).Not very civilized.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

So how did the organic chem test go? (I read your away messages every day)

Well, I did fairly well, but not as well as I would have liked (considering I'm a chemistry major).

BTW, on the topic of away messages, are you writing a book?

[Just Curious]

RD [/B][/QUOTE]
BTW, guys and gals, please - no more discussion on momentum. I just took a physics test today dealing with that very issue, among others [/B][/QUOTE]

Yeah... The motion thing.... Who was it that said.... "A butt in motion tends to stay in motion"? Some law or another....
BTW I have a travel... I would allow the sitting up, but under the advantage/disadvantage law (I believe it's the law just before the "motion" law), I see an unfair advantage being gained with the pivot....

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Just Curious
[/B]

Yeah... The motion thing.... Who was it that said.... "A butt in motion tends to stay in motion"? Some law or another....
[/B][/QUOTE]The quote was probably by a young,single guy-because,unfortunately,it certainly ain't a Marriage Law!

[Larry]

Originally posted by Nevadaref
The play you describe is legal in high school.
Take a look at the casebook 4.43.5B
Also note that the concept of a pivot is only defined with regard to a foot. There is no such thing as a pivot butt, knee, elbow, head, etc.
I believe you must look at the player's feet to determine traveling. In your case, if the player is spinning on her butt, consider how is she generating the power for the spin. Is she pushing off on the floor with her hands or feet? If she is using her feet to turn in circles I would call a travel if her foot movements violate the traveling restrictions in 4-43. ie pick up and put back down.
To support this claim I cite the definition of traveling in 4-43 and the definition of pivot in 4-33:
"Traveling is moving a FOOT OR FEET in any direction in excess of prescribed limits while holding the ball."
"A pivot takes place when a player who is holding the ball steps once, or more than once, in any direction with the same foot while the other foot, called the pivot foot, is kept at its point of contact with the floor."
These rules say nothing about moving your butt! Therefore, we must consider butt movements as unrestricted and legal. So, I say that if the girl sits up, then picks up both feet and holds them in the air, she may push on the floor with her hands and cause herself to spin on her butt like a top if she so desires!!! I would allow it as a legal play. Of course, one of my partners would probably call a travel, so my whistle is a moot point.
Also remember that if a player dives for a ball on the floor, obtains possession, and then slides, it is not traveling. Sliding is legal until the player's momentum stops.
Lastly, I will concede that this is definitely a gray area in the rules and that different officials will have different opinions on the play.

[Edited by Nevadaref on Nov 10th, 2002 at 04:01 AM]

In ours area this is nothing, we permit a player to gain control of the ball, come to one knee and start a dribble or pass. If the player go from the floor to a direct standing position, then it's traveling.

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by Larry


In ours area this is nothing, we permit a player to gain control of the ball, come to one knee and start a dribble or pass. If the player go from the floor to a direct standing position, then it's traveling.

You must be kidding!!! The only legal movement when laying on the floor is to sit up (and only if they are on their back to start with). Anything else is traveling, especially if they rise to one knee.

[Jay R]

I e-mailed our provincial interpreter and he said that lifting one knee would not constitute a travel. Only when he raises the second. That was not my point of view, but I will follow my interpreter's wishes.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Jay R
I e-mailed our provincial interpreter and he said that lifting one knee would not constitute a travel. Only when he raises the second. That was not my point of view, but I will follow my interpreter's wishes.

Jay,the problem is that getting to the knees in the first place from a laying or sitting position is a travel.What they do after they get there is irrelevant.I agree with Camron.

[Jay R]

JR
Gotcha!

[camster]

what if player is in front court sitting with ball, facing back court, does a 180 spin on butt,lifting both feet as spinning to pass to team mate running past them. travel?

[Mark Padgett]

Originally posted by camster
what if player is in front court sitting with ball, facing back court, does a 180 spin on butt,lifting both feet as spinning to pass to team mate running past them. travel?

Yes, this would be a travel. It would be considered the same as rolling to gain an advantage.

[mary quinn]

We call that a travel. A player lying on the floor
can sit up only. They can't make any other movement
with their body. Since you can have a pivot foot--
you can't have a pivot cheek.

[mick]

Originally posted by mary quinn
We call that a travel. A player lying on the floor
can sit up only. They can't make any other movement
with their body. Since you can have a pivot foot--
you can't have a pivot cheek.

Good call, mary quinn,
And welcome here!

The player may sit up, start dribbling, and then get busy, yes?
mick