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  #16 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 10, 2011, 09:13am
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Originally Posted by Jfpdi View Post
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3) player drops to his knee while holding the ball

Always traveling anytime a player holding the ball tocuhes the floor with any part of his body other than his foot or hand.


Always is a strong word because if you are in one of those places that uses NCAA women's rules ( such as colleges) and NYS high school girls basketball this is not a travel violation. It is recognized that just dropping to one knee does not necessarily mean the pivot foot moved illegally.
Huh? That's not the provision being violated.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 10, 2011, 09:50am
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Originally Posted by Jfpdi View Post
Always is a strong word because if you are in one of those places that uses NCAA women's rules ( such as colleges) and NYS high school girls basketball this is not a travel violation. It is recognized that just dropping to one kneee does not necessarily mean the pivot foot moved illegally.
Rule reference please...
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 10, 2011, 10:01am
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Before it is a travelling violation the player has to fail to maintain the pivot foot. Just dropping to one knee does not mean the player failed to maintain the pivot foot in NCAA.

Case Book A.R. 117.3
"When a player falls to one knee while holding the ball, it is traveling if the pivot foot moves."
(Rule 4-70.6 and 4-70.1)
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 10, 2011, 10:14am
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Originally Posted by Jfpdi View Post
Before it is a travelling violation the player has to fail to maintain the pivot foot. Just dropping to one knee does not mean the player failed to maintain the pivot foot in NCAA.

Case Book A.R. 117.3
"When a player falls to one knee while holding the ball, it is traveling if the pivot foot moves."
(Rule 4-70.6 and 4-70.1)

And you did notice, "because it is virtually impossible not to move the pivot foot when falling to the playing floor" in the ruling on 1 & 2?
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 10, 2011, 10:25am
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1. refers to falling to the floor while holding the ball without maintaining a pivot foot, which of course is a violation.

2. states the player dropped to both knees without maintaining a pivot foot, of course a violation.

Yes it states it is vitually impossible to fall and maintain a pivot foot, but all 3 state that the pivot foot must move for the violation to occur. Just dropping to one knee does not mean that the pivot foot moved.

I believe this was also a quiz in a recent "Referee" magazine and it did distinguish between Fed and NCAA interpretations on dropping to one knee. Fed it is a travel violation. In NCAA the pivot foot must move.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 10, 2011, 10:29am
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Gotcha! So in HS its automatic & NCAA its a judgment call...
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  #22 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 10, 2011, 10:33am
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Originally Posted by Jfpdi View Post
1. refers to falling to the floor while holding the ball without maintaining a pivot foot, which of course is a violation.

2. states the player dropped to both knees without maintaining a pivot foot, of course a violation.

Yes it states it is vitually impossible to fall and maintain a pivot foot, but all 3 state that the pivot foot must move for the violation to occur. Just dropping to one knee does not mean that the pivot foot moved.

I believe this was also a quiz in a recent "Referee" magazine and it did distinguish between Fed and NCAA interpretations on dropping to one knee. Fed it is a travel violation. In NCAA the pivot foot must move.
Agreed.

FED rules are the standard here, unless something else is specified (which you did)
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 10, 2011, 10:33am
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Originally Posted by tref View Post
Gotcha! So in HS its automatic & NCAA its a judgment call...
It might be a judgment call in NCAA but it's also automatic. Traveling is called. It's the expected and accepted call.
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 10, 2011, 10:49am
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Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee View Post
It might be a judgment call in NCAA but it's also automatic. Traveling is called. It's the expected and accepted call.
Yes, that is one rule that the fanatics seem to comprehend
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 10, 2011, 02:38pm
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What if player with the ball is flat on his back and does a sit-up to a sitting position?

I would say this is not a travel since your already on the ground.
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 10, 2011, 02:39pm
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Originally Posted by cmhjordan23 View Post
What if player with the ball is flat on his back and does a sit-up to a sitting position?

I would say this is not a travel since your already on the ground.
Case book play 4.44.5 Situation B answers your question exactly.
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  #27 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 10, 2011, 04:53pm
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Most of that, too.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 10, 2011, 05:15pm
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Understanding the rules of "traveling vs not traveling", at least for me, is the easy part.

The hard part is being able to pick out the traveling violations in a game situation. As it stands right now, at least once a game I'll see a traveling violation, and my brain will lock up and do the "ummm... uh.... uh..... oh yeah, that's a travel" routine. The problem is that by the time my brain gets to "that's a travel", 2-3 seconds have passed and it's really too late to call it.

It also seems like my partners usually are calling more traveling violations then I am during the course of a game.

Any tips on how I can improve my "that's a travel" awareness?
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  #29 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 10, 2011, 05:23pm
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Originally Posted by jTheUmp View Post
Any tips on how I can improve my "that's a travel" awareness?
I know they tell us to referee the defense, but identifying the pivot foot as soon as the player receives the ball is really the only way to adjudicate properly...

Try a team officiating concept on post entry passes:
L - officiates the defender(s)
T - picks up the pivot foot
C - prepare for the curl play
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old Thu Feb 10, 2011, 06:35pm
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Originally Posted by The_Rookie View Post
Hello,

I feel that I am not understanding traveling violation enough to call it often.

Any help on clarifying traveling in game situations...

Thanks!
i've found that if you simply call traveling when it "looks funny", you'll keep the fans, coaches, and players happy...they don't know the rules either...

oh wait...that could apply to "over-and-back" violations, "over-the-back" fouls, 3 second violations, illegal screens, block/charge plays, hand-check plays, "carrying" violations...well I guess it's EVERYTHING really!
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