What kind of foul is this?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Illini_Ref

I never lose track of time to the point of forgetting lunch. I have to keep fuel in this well oiled machine!

LOL!!! That is what we call it now.

Peace

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

A1 is fouled by B1 in the act of shooting. B1 then tells the official that his call is horse-sh**. B1 is charged with a technical foul. As the official nears the reporting area, he hears a crowd reaction and turns around to see A1 clapping in the face of B1. A technical foul is then charged to A1. These technicals are several seconds apart BTW.

How is the penalties assessed in this situation?

I will give my answer or what I think when I get some feedback.

Peace

1. A1 shoots 2 free throws for personal foul.
2. Any Team A player(s) shoots 2 free throws for unsporting technical
3. Any Team B player(s) shoots 2 free throws for unsporting technical
4. Team B gets throw-in from divsion line

I didn't look at anybody else's responses yet so I'm sure this has already been said.

Originally Posted by Illini_Ref

I'll get the discussion on the right track.

What is the definition of "approximately the same time"?

Not this scenario.

[bainsey]

I have a shooting foul, followed by a false double. The technicals are two separate incidents.

[eyezen]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

1. A1 shoots 2 free throws for personal foul.
2. Any Team A player(s) shoots 2 free throws for unsporting technical
3. 3. Any Team B player(s) shoots 2 free throws for unsporting technical
4. Team B gets throw-in from divsion line

I didn't look at anybody else's responses yet so I'm sure this has already been said.



Not this scenario.

If NFHS this is correct

[Smitty]

Originally Posted by Illini_Ref

But is does make then simultaneous technicals which are simply technicals on each team at "app. the same time".

Enforcement is the same as a double T.

Don't have my books with me, but is what you just said in the book? Because simultaneously does not mean "approximately the same time" - it means "the same time".

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

1. A1 shoots 2 free throws for personal foul.
2. Any Team A player(s) shoots 2 free throws for unsporting technical
3. 3. Any Team B player(s) shoots 2 free throws for unsporting technical
4. Team B gets throw-in from divsion line

This was my original answer to the letter.

Peace

[Illini_Ref]

Originally Posted by Smitty

Don't have my books with me, but is what you just said in the book? Because simultaneously does not mean "approximately the same time" - it means "the same time".

NFHS 4-19-10

A simultaneous foul (personal or technical) by opponents is a situation in which there is a foul by both teams which occurs at approximately the same time, but are not committed by opponents against each other.

The penalty for simultaneous fouls includes no FTs and the ball placed at the POI.

[Smitty]

Fair enough. I stand corrected.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Illini_Ref

NFHS 4-19-10

A simultaneous foul (personal or technical) by opponents is a situation in which there is a foul by both teams which occurs at approximately the same time, but are not committed by opponents against each other.

The penalty for simultaneous fouls includes no FTs and the ball placed at the POI.

Yeah, but simultaneous is usually when we cannot determine which took place first or last. This is not the case here as the officials did not call them at the same time in this play. A1 reacted to the T being given. I cannot see how we can make this simultaneous.

Peace

[Illini_Ref]

The only difference between a false double foul and a simultaneous foul here is the question of what is "approximately the same time".

Is it one second? Is it three seconds? Is it until the foul is reported?

It is an area that has no answer in the book, and as far as I can tell, no official interpretation from the Federation.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Illini_Ref

The only difference between a false double foul and a simultaneous foul here is the question of what is "approximately the same time".

Is it one second? Is it three seconds? Is it until the foul is reported?

It is an area that has no answer in the book, and as far as I can tell, no official interpretation from the Federation.

I personally think that is reading a lot into the play when from all previous information from the NF that they have always given those as an example of things that happen at the same time. Not we call a foul, then call another foul as a result of the first action. That sounds like a stretch of what the rules says. Maybe they could clarify, but these should like events that happen one after the other.

Just as I said this, HB responded to me.

Peace

[Illini_Ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I personally think that is reading a lot into the play when from all previous information from the NF that they have always given those as an example of things that happen at the same time. Not we call a foul, then call another foul as a result of the first action. That sounds like a stretch of what the rules says. Maybe they could clarify, but these should like events that happen one after the other.

Still waiting on HB BTW.

Peace

100% agree.

Maybe an official interp from the Federation would be in order. Or maybe change the rule and always shoot all technicals in the order they occur then go to POI.

[eyezen]

Can you give us some background on the game?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Illini_Ref

100% agree.

Maybe an official interp from the Federation would be in order. Or maybe change the rule and always shoot all technicals in the order they occur then go to POI.

Check your PM over "there" and I sent you the email response.

Peace

[YooperRef]

Originally Posted by BadNewsRef

1. A1 shoots 2 free throws for personal foul.
2. Any Team A player(s) shoots 2 free throws for unsporting technical
3. 3. Any Team B player(s) shoots 2 free throws for unsporting technical
4. Team B gets throw-in from divsion line

That's how I would have handled it. False double situation so you penalize in order they occurred. I guess is depends on how you interpret "at approximately the same time".