End of overtime video

[ref3808]

Assuming the table was consulted if there was any question as to the end of the quarter/period. If there's disagreement, it goes to referee's decision.


Case 2.13

The signal to end the fourth quarter cannot be heard by the officials. The table officials disagree as to whether the ball was in flight during a try for field goal or if a foul occured before the ball became dead.

The final decision shall be made by the referee , and unless he/she has knowledge to alter the ruling, the goal shall count if it was successful and the foul shall be charged and penalized.

[mbyron]

Well that's one way to avoid a second OT. Not a good way, IMO.

[jearef]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Well that's one way to avoid a second OT. Not a good way, IMO.

+1

I realize it's a lot different when we are on the floor instead of watching a video, but I honestly didn't think that play was particularly close. Seemed to me that the horn clearly sounded prior to the contact. Clearly a foul, but after the horn. Tough situation for the crew.

[APG]

Originally Posted by jearef

+1

I realize it's a lot different when we are on the floor instead of watching a video, but I honestly didn't think that play was particularly close. Seemed to me that the horn clearly sounded prior to the contact. Clearly a foul, but after the horn. Tough situation for the crew.

What I don't know is how the other two officials missed the horn. I can excuse the lead a bit because he's concentrating on the impending contact. But the C on this play has last second shot responsiblitiy and should be listening for the horn. This is also why I've been thought that all officials have an opinion on a last second shot. In this case, the trail should have also been waiting for the horn in my opinion. Those two should have been able to talk the lead out of administering free throws due to the period ending.

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

What I don't know is how the other two officials missed the horn. I can excuse the lead a bit because he's concentrating on the impending contact. But the C on this play has last second shot responsiblitiy and should be listening for the horn. This is also why I've been thought that all officials have an opinion on a last second shot. In this case, the trail should have also been waiting for the horn in my opinion. Those two should have been able to talk the lead out of administering free throws due to the period ending.

I will have to re-watch it. We often will sound the whistle to signify the end of play for the quarter. Especially if a shot goes up, time expires and there is no way for the try to be successful. If the C comes out with a whistle, then if the L is late with his, then the contact get ignored.

Okay, I re-watched it. If C would have come out with a whistle with his hand up at the horn and with the attempt not getting even close, it would have prevented the call by L from being made. Or at least it should have.

[mbyron]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

What I don't know is how the other two officials missed the horn. ... Those two should have been able to talk the lead out of administering free throws due to the period ending.

I saw a senior official who called the foul meeting with two junior partners and telling them how it was going to go down. Didn't appear to be a consultation: he doesn't look at them and ask, "what did you see?."

Bainsey, were you one of the officials?

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by mbyron

I saw a senior official who called the foul meeting with two junior partners and telling them how it was going to go down. Didn't appear to be a consultation: he doesn't look at them and ask, "what did you see?."

Bainsey, were you one of the officials?

Gardiner is covered by another association. Central Maine Board, I believe.

[jalons]

Originally Posted by mbyron

I saw a senior official who called the foul meeting with two junior partners and telling them how it was going to go down. Didn't appear to be a consultation: he doesn't look at them and ask, "what did you see?."

Bainsey, were you one of the officials?

I don't understand why the calling official reports the foul, then brings his partners together, only to report the foul again. Does he want more face time with the coach at half-court?

I always include a situation like this in my pregame. If we have a last second shot, all three of us need to have an opinion. If I'm the trail official here, I am more concerned about offering my information (the horn sounded before the incidental contact) to the lead official than getting the ball from the player in the middle of the court.

The C must not know when the horn sounded (although he would ultimately be responsible for the last second shot). He is about two steps away from cutting the lead off and saving the day, when he decides to just stand there and watch.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by mbyron

Bainsey, were you one of the officials?

LOL You think I would have posted this here if I were?

As 26 mentioned, this is a different part of the state. Different board. (Although I have no idea what "accents" he's talking about. I didn't hear any. )

I have two questions, though:

*I believe the rules say that an official must be positive that a shot is released too late to call off a try. That is, if you're not sure whether a shot is released before the horn, it's still a try. If this is the case, does this mentality also apply to fouls before/after the buzzer?

*We talked about intentional and flagrant fouls after the buzzer. What about technical fouls? If you have dead ball contact after the buzzer, is it possible to call such contact, and shoot free throws at the beginning of the next period?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bainsey

LOL You think I would have posted this here if I were?

As 26 mentioned, this is a different part of the state. Different board. (Although I have no idea what "accents" he's talking about. I didn't hear any. )

I have two questions, though:

*I believe the rules say that an official must be positive that a shot is released too late to call off a try. That is, if you're not sure whether a shot is released before the horn, it's still a try. If this is the case, does this mentality also apply to fouls before/after the buzzer?

*We talked about intentional and flagrant fouls after the buzzer. What about technical fouls? If you have dead ball contact after the buzzer, is it possible to call such contact, and shoot free throws at the beginning of the next period?

Yes, you could. But it would have to be inentional or flagrant.

[APG]

Originally Posted by bainsey

*We talked about intentional and flagrant fouls after the buzzer. What about technical fouls? If you have dead ball contact after the buzzer, is it possible to call such contact, and shoot free throws at the beginning of the next period?

By rule the only foul we can call for dead ball contact is an intentional technical foul or flagrant technical foul (save the airborne shooter exception).

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by bainsey

*I believe the rules say that an official must be positive that a shot is released too late to call off a try. That is, if you're not sure whether a shot is released before the horn, it's still a try. If this is the case, does this mentality also apply to fouls before/after the buzzer?

If you'll look up the rule you cite on your assumption, you'll find the answer to the question.

*We talked about intentional and flagrant fouls after the buzzer. What about technical fouls? If you have dead ball contact after the buzzer, is it possible to call such contact, and shoot free throws at the beginning of the next period?

Can't you always have a T until the officials' jurisdiction has ended?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by jearef

+1

I realize it's a lot different when we are on the floor instead of watching a video, but I honestly didn't think that play was particularly close. Seemed to me that the horn clearly sounded prior to the contact. Clearly a foul, but after the horn. Tough situation for the crew.

Yes, I agree. It wasn't intentional or flagrant. Go to the second OT. Ignore the contact.

[Terrapins Fan]

Originally Posted by jearef

I realize it's a lot different when we are on the floor instead of watching a video, but I honestly didn't think that play was particularly close. Seemed to me that the horn clearly sounded prior to the contact. Clearly a foul, but after the horn. Tough situation for the crew.

+1 . Horn sounded 1st.

[JRutledge]

I am trying to figure out why the calling official allowed the coach to be in his face at half court. Despite the call, that is not going on with me. Get that coach back in his box.

Secondly I do not understand why someone did not tell him that play was over. Now maybe they did, but that conversation would have gone on longer. I also do not like the "arms around each other" to have a discussion. Sit next to each other and talk. This makes it look like you cannot have the conversation on without the support of your officials as you screwed up. It looks really bad considering what this official just called.

And last but not least, "beat the tape." You know the game is on tape. If it is not obvious that the foul took place before the whistle, go to overtime. This was not close.

Lord knows I have been in enough bad situations, but this will be used as a training tape as what not to do in my fall class for sure. So many teaching points in this video for sure.

Peace