What's The Correct Call ???

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by bainsey

That's the basis why I'm leaning toward travelling in Billy's sitch.

If you hold the ball, intentionally throw it, move to another spot on the floor, and hold it again, it's a travel.

If you hold the ball, fumble it, then intentionally move it on the floor to a new spot, then hold it again, shouldn't it still be a travel?

While you certainly cannot penalize the fumble, I see just cause in the intentional movement. What difference does it make whether you intentionally move the ball from one spot to the other -- resulting in control on both ends -- via the air or the floor?

Now bainsey thinks it's traveling to retrieve a fumble.

Nice job Billy Mac.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Now bainsey thinks it's traveling to retrieve a fumble.

Wrong. That's not what I said.

And JR, of course you wouldn't whistle a travel until the ball is held, just as you wouldn't whistle it until you hold it after throwing it from a different place on the floor. Again, whether the ball moves through the air or on the floor, what does it matter?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Wrong. That's not what I said.

And JR, of course you wouldn't whistle a travel until the ball is held, just as you wouldn't whistle it until you hold it after throwing it from a different place on the floor. Again, whether the ball moves through the air or on the floor, what does it matter?

It doesn't, but the ball is never thrown in Billy's play.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

It doesn't, but the ball is never thrown in Billy's play.

True, but what is a throw? It's an intentional movement of the ball through the air.

In Billy's play, the player intentionally moved the ball on the floor.

I don't see a difference.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by bainsey

True, but what is a throw? It's an intentional movement of the ball through the air.

In Billy's play, the player intentionally moved the ball on the floor.

I don't see a difference.

You grab the ball to throw it. When you grab it, you also "HOLD" it. That establishes player control. Tapping the ball in the air or batting the ball along the ground does NOT establish player control because the ball never comes to rest in the batter/tipper's hand(s).

That's the (very obvious ) difference. Ray Charles could see that.

Basics, bainsey, basics.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

You grab the ball to throw it. When you grab it, you also "HOLD" it. That establishes player control. Tapping the ball in the air or batting the ball along the ground does NOT establish player control because the ball never comes to rest in the batter/tipper's hand(s).

All true, JR, but the fact being ignored here is that the player in Billy's sitch HAD control earlier, then fumbled. If you think that doesn't matter, consider this...

*Airborne version: A-1 holds the ball. (Player control.) A-1 releases the ball, and it's not a try for goal. (Player control ends, team control remains.) A-1 moves to another spot on the court, and catches the ball. (Player control.) Travelling.

*Ground version: A-1 holds the ball. (Player control.) A-1 fumbles the ball. (Player control ends, team control remains.) A-1 bats the ball on the floor, no-one else touches it, and picks it up at another spot on the floor. (Player control.) Travelling.

A shot would certainly end team control, but a fumble does not. Whether you get from point A to point B by plane or train, you still get there.

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by bainsey

All true, JR, but the fact being ignored here is that the player in Billy's sitch HAD control earlier, then fumbled. If you think that doesn't matter, consider this...

*Airborne version: A-1 holds the ball. (Player control.) A-1 releases the ball, and it's not a try for goal. (Player control ends, team control remains.) A-1 moves to another spot on the court, and catches the ball. (Player control.) Travelling.

*Ground version: A-1 holds the ball. (Player control.) A-1 fumbles the ball. (Player control ends, team control remains.) A-1 bats the ball on the floor, no-one else touches it, and picks it up at another spot on the floor. (Player control.) Travelling.

A shot would certainly end team control, but a fumble does not. Whether you get from point A to point B by plane or train, you still get there.

Lot of difference in catching a thrown ball and recovering one that was fumbled.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bainsey

All true, JR, but the fact being ignored here is that the player in Billy's sitch HAD control earlier, then fumbled. If you think that doesn't matter, consider this...

*Airborne version: A-1 holds the ball. (Player control.) A-1 releases the ball, and it's not a try for goal. (Player control ends, team control remains.) A-1 moves to another spot on the court, and catches the ball. (Player control.) Travelling.

*Ground version: A-1 holds the ball. (Player control.) A-1 fumbles the ball. (Player control ends, team control remains.) A-1 bats the ball on the floor, no-one else touches it, and picks it up at another spot on the floor. (Player control.) Travelling.

A shot would certainly end team control, but a fumble does not. Whether you get from point A to point B by plane or train, you still get there.

Even your airborne version is legal if, instead of "releases" the ball, you change it to "fumbles." Apples need to be compared with apples, not blueberries.

It's not about team control, it's about player control. A player may always retrieve a fumble. This is the same concept as the rebound tipped into the BC by the offense. Even if you're 100% sure he did it on purpose and the ball went precisely where it was supposed to go, player control is not established. You just can't go there.