The Official Forum  

Go Back   The Official Forum > Basketball

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 27, 2011, 01:12pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Irving, Texas
Posts: 675
Easier for us to see...

I hope I have posted a video I ran across today. I think the L did not see the contact. He only saw action and reaction. The call was correct from where I sit, but what I understand from the "you have to see the contact" crowd, it shouldn't have been called. The contact, if it happend, was on the opposite side of the players head from where the L was standing. L does not know contact occurred.

Just watch the video.

Cosby Sweaters Grade School Basketball Game Sucker Punch!
__________________
- SamIAm (Senior Registered User) - (Concerning all judgement calls - they depend on age, ability, and severity)

Last edited by SamIAm; Thu Jan 27, 2011 at 01:31pm. Reason: My usual spelling and grammar issues.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 27, 2011, 01:23pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania
Posts: 307
I'm in the "punch of any kind whether there's contact or not should get the same reaction from the official" crowd
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 27, 2011, 01:25pm
Archaic Power Monger
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 5,985
That's a big assumption to make. You do realize that the player should be assessed a flagrant personal foul for fighting even if he does not make contact in this situation, correct?
__________________
Even if you’re on the right track, you’ll get run over if you just sit there. - Will Rogers
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 27, 2011, 01:26pm
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,191
He could easily see the punching action, no need to see contact here. I noticed he incorrectly calls a T, but that's a minor issue here.

Edit: Scratch that, a Flagrant T is the proper call for fighting regardless of live ball/dead ball or contact/no contact.
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.

Last edited by Adam; Thu Jan 27, 2011 at 01:29pm.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 27, 2011, 01:35pm
Fav theme: Roundball Rock
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Near Dog River (sorta)
Posts: 8,557
Quote:
Originally Posted by SamIAm View Post
I hope I have posted a video I ran across today. I think the L did not see the contact. He only saw action and reaction. The call was correct from where I sit, but what I understand from the "you have to see the contact" crowd, it shouldn't have been called. The contact, if it happend, was on the opposite side of the players head from where the L was standing. L does not know contact occurred.

Just watch the video.

Cosby Sweaters Grade School Basketball Game Sucker Punch!
Since contact doesn't need to be made on a situation like this, it doesn't matter if contact is seen or not. Green 34 is ejected for his actions.

Then he's fined $1,500 for commenting on the play using social media.
__________________
Pope Francis
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 27, 2011, 01:41pm
Archaic Power Monger
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 5,985
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
Edit: Scratch that, a Flagrant T is the proper call for fighting regardless of live ball/dead ball or contact/no contact.
Is that your final answer?
__________________
Even if you’re on the right track, you’ll get run over if you just sit there. - Will Rogers
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 27, 2011, 01:43pm
9/11 - Never Forget
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 5,641
Send a message via Yahoo to grunewar
What do you mean he didn't make contact? Didn't you see that kid go down and the pain he is obvioulsy in? Wow! Must have been solid contact. Soccer must be his springtime sport.

Dirty sucker punch. Uncalled for no matter how you look at it. Gone!
__________________
There was the person who sent ten puns to friends, with the hope that at least one of the puns would make them laugh. No pun in ten did.
Reply With Quote
  #8 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 27, 2011, 01:57pm
Adam's Avatar
Keeper of the HAMMER
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: MST
Posts: 27,191
Quote:
Originally Posted by Welpe View Post
Is that your final answer?
Yep. Fighting is 10-3-8, and it doesn't specify anything about contact or live ball. Section 10-3 is labeled "player technical."
__________________
Sprinkles are for winners.
Reply With Quote
  #9 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 27, 2011, 02:03pm
Archaic Power Monger
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 5,985
What about 4-19-4?

Also, 8.7 Situation A:

8.7 SITUATION A: A1 is attempting the second free throw of a two-shot foul.
While the second free throw is in flight, A2 and B1 punch each other simultaneously.

RULING: Both A2 and B1 are disqualified for fighting. Since this is a double
personal foul,
no free throws are awarded. The ball is put in play at the point
of interruption. If A1's free throw is successful, Team B is awarded a throw-in
from anywhere along the end line. If A1's free throw is unsuccessful, the alternating-
possession procedure is used. (4-19-8; 6-4-3g; 7-5-3b; 4-36; 10-3-8; 10
Penalty 1c, 8a(1))




Similar verbiage found in 10.4.5 Situation A
__________________
Even if you’re on the right track, you’ll get run over if you just sit there. - Will Rogers

Last edited by Welpe; Thu Jan 27, 2011 at 02:05pm.
Reply With Quote
  #10 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 27, 2011, 02:06pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 7,621
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
Yep. Fighting is 10-3-8, and it doesn't specify anything about contact or live ball. Section 10-3 is labeled "player technical."
How about 4-18?

I'm penalizing a landed punch with a flagrant personal foul because of the contact. Although the contact was preceded by the "attempt" referred to in 4-18-1, I'm not penalizing that separately.

That's similar to the idea that contacting the ball while it's still in the thrower's hands is a T, despite being preceded by a throwing-plane violation.

Any flagrant fouls after the first one will be T's because the ball is dead.
__________________
Cheers,
mb
Reply With Quote
  #11 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 27, 2011, 02:11pm
We don't rent pigs
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 7,627
Fighting takes at least 2, so if it's a double flagrant, it really doesn't matter whether it's personal or technical, the penalty is the same.
__________________
I swear, Gus, you'd argue with a possum.
It'd be easier than arguing with you, Woodrow.


Lonesome Dove
Reply With Quote
  #12 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 27, 2011, 02:11pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Iron City, TN
Posts: 181
Send a message via Skype™ to reffish
I like the reaction by the camera, "What?" when the official is escorting the player to the bench for ejection.
Reply With Quote
  #13 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 27, 2011, 02:12pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: In the offseason.
Posts: 11,765
Quote:
Originally Posted by grunewar View Post
What do you mean he didn't make contact? Didn't you see that kid go down and the pain he is obvioulsy in? Wow! Must have been solid contact. Soccer must be his springtime sport.

Dirty sucker punch. Uncalled for no matter how you look at it. Gone!

I don't see that anyone said their was no contact. I only see posts that say it was not necessary to see the contact....it would be a flagrant T for fighting in any case.
__________________
Owner/Developer of RefTown.com
Reply With Quote
  #14 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 27, 2011, 02:13pm
Archaic Power Monger
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Houston, TX
Posts: 5,985
Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
Fighting takes at least 2...
Not true.

4-18

Fighting is a flagrant act and can occur when the ball is dead or live. Fighting
includes, but is not limited to combative acts such as:

ART. 1 . . . An attempt to strike, punch or kick by using a fist, hands, arms, legs or feet regardless of whether contact is made.

A single player taking a swing at another and missing is enough for a flagrant personal / technical foul for fighting.
__________________
Even if you’re on the right track, you’ll get run over if you just sit there. - Will Rogers
Reply With Quote
  #15 (permalink)  
Old Thu Jan 27, 2011, 02:13pm
Official Forum Member
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: In the offseason.
Posts: 11,765
Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref View Post
Fighting takes at least 2, so if it's a double flagrant, it really doesn't matter whether it's personal or technical, the penalty is the same.
Where do you get that idea?
__________________
Owner/Developer of RefTown.com
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
can offside rule be made easier and better? Steven Gottlieb Soccer 11 Wed Dec 08, 2004 10:00am
Even easier T w_sohl Basketball 11 Fri Dec 19, 2003 01:14pm
New FED rule: appeals required, made easier Patrick Szalapski Baseball 33 Thu Oct 18, 2001 02:06pm


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:14pm.



Search Engine Friendly URLs by vBSEO 3.3.0 RC1