Whacked Home Coach.......Probably not deserved.....

[freddie_g2001]

Situation is this: Worked a big Rival 5A double header last night with two very good Officials. Very competitive game although one team was ranked in the top 8 in the state. (Home team) Gym is loud as it has a very good crowd. Home team misses a shot and as I'm running up the floor to be the new Lead, Home Coach Runs the sideline in my direction and Says "DAMN IT", and I Wacked him. After the gym erupted, I went to report my Technical, and the home coach said, "I was talking to my player. (I said Damn It Andre) I believe he really was talking to his player but the fact that he ran in my direction and the gym saw it, it gave the appearance that he was yelling at me. Right or wrong, I stuck with my technical. If he hadn't of cursed in my direction, It could have been avoided. I actually thought I should not have whacked him but It is what it is. I'd appreciate any input on what you think.......Should I have or not? Thanks for your input in advance...freddie_g2001

[stir22]

this forum, and threads like this are invaluable to us new folks who are still trying to figure out where our "line" is. i'm not qualified to answer your question, but i'd like to pose a follow-up...are t's, once given, ever withdrawn after an explanation from the player/coach?

/thanks

[stosh]

Using profane or inappropriate language is enough for a T, by rule, regardless of how it is directed. For me "DAMN IT" is probably not enough unless I'm sure it's directed to me or my partners. Harsher language, even directed at players, would get me to address it especially if it loud enough for me to hear it.

[Rich]

As I always say, what's profane? These threads always amuse me. There are some who will whack without a second thought someone who screams out "Jesus Christ!" I'm not religious and I wouldn't even give it a second thought.

It comes down to this -- it appears that we are very inconsistent in this area because we are. What's profanity to you isn't profanity to me. And quite frankly, said quietly, I'm not very concerned by any of it unless it's directly at me.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

There are some who will whack without a second thought someone who screams out "Jesus Christ!" I'm not religious and I wouldn't even give it a second thought.

I whacked a coach in a youth game for this and would do it again. But it was also in response to a travel my partner called. A high school game I am more apt to let it pass.

[26 Year Gap]

Once you have issued the T in that situation, it stays. You can't unscramble eggs. Don't let the "I was talking to my player" mantra get in the way. If his player was further away than you, and he said it loud enough for his player to hear, then it was loud enough to be heard in the stands, too. As to judgment on which words cross the line and which words don't, it is a judgment call. Some words will get a T from everybody. Others will get a T from a majority. And still others will get them from a minority. It is still a judgment call. And you are the judge.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Welpe

I whacked a coach in a youth game for this and would do it again. But it was also in response to a travel my partner called. A high school game I am more apt to let it pass.

Would you have whacked him if he had said, "Come on!"?

To me, it's the exact same thing.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

What's profanity to you isn't profanity to me.

I believe profanity is pretty well defined. What's offensive to one, however, isn't necessarily offensive to another.

Is "damn" cursing? Certainly. Is it profanity? No. Is it offensive? I don't think so, nor would I T-up someone for it. That's very mild.

I don't think what offends is the big question, either. It comes down to what's appropriate for the setting. Carlin's seven words -- plus a few others he left out -- may not offend me, but they simply don't belong at a scholastic contest.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bainsey

I don't think what offends is the big question, either. It comes down to what's appropriate for the setting. Carlin's seven words -- plus a few others he left out -- may not offend me, but they simply don't belong at a scholastic contest.

In Maine.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by RichMSN

It comes down to this -- it appears that we are very inconsistent in this area because we are.

Bingo.

You can discuss this forever but any unsporting technical fouls except for the absolute no-brainers are usually dependant on personal established limits. We all set our own line and those lines will vary. The coaches and players will adjust to your line. Just don't move that line during a game.

There's different ways to keep the game under control and moving. As long as you can do that, you've done your job.

JMO.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Bingo.

You can discuss this forever but any unsporting technical fouls except for the absolute no-brainers are usually dependant on personal established limits. We all set our own line and those lines will vary. The coaches and players will adjust to your line. Just don't move that line during a game.

There's different ways to keep the game under control and moving. As long as you can do that, you've done your job.

JMO.

I had a player in a BV game leave the game last night and he was frustrated by his play -- he was venting (quietly enough) on the bench to a coach/teammate and I heard an f-bomb or two. I simply turned and said, "watch your mouth, k?" and left it at that. I didn't make a big deal out of it and I didn't even look in the kid's direction. But I heard the assistant coach address it with the kid.

I guess my gripe with guys who T players up for the utterance of a single profanity on the court is that there doesn't seem to be any common sense or context -- it's an emotional game and kids (and adults) tend to use language that may not be shown on TV at 8PM. Who cares? I don't feel it's my job to try to change society one technical foul at a time.

I've heard more than one player in my life utter out a "sh!t" or "damn" after grounding out or missing a steal or doing something else that leaves them frustrated. It's when the remark is directed at me or an opponent that it becomes part of something bigger.

[VaTerp]

Yeah, sounds like a case of rabbit ears. To me, "damn it" is not cursing. And if he didnt add anything after that then how could you be sure he was directing it toward you?

You say he was running the sideline in your direction but presuming that you're watching the players on the court and not the coach, how do you know he was running "at" you.

In a situation like this I might glance over at the coach if I hear some language to see if he really is adressing me. But again, "damn it" followed by nothing else is really not a big deal to me.

IMO, you jumped the gun here and were way too quick to issue a T without being fully aware of what was going on. Another reminder of why it's always good to slow down mentally, even when caught in transitioning from trail to lead.

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by freddie_g2001

Situation is this: Worked a big Rival 5A double header last night with two very good Officials. Very competitive game although one team was ranked in the top 8 in the state. (Home team) Gym is loud as it has a very good crowd. Home team misses a shot and as I'm running up the floor to be the new Lead, Home Coach Runs the sideline in my direction and Says "DAMN IT", and I Wacked him. After the gym erupted, I went to report my Technical, and the home coach said, "I was talking to my player. (I said Damn It Andre) I believe he really was talking to his player but the fact that he ran in my direction and the gym saw it, it gave the appearance that he was yelling at me. Right or wrong, I stuck with my technical. If he hadn't of cursed in my direction, It could have been avoided. I actually thought I should not have whacked him but It is what it is. I'd appreciate any input on what you think.......Should I have or not? Thanks for your input in advance...freddie_g2001

I wouldn't have whacked him for that, especially if he had not been a problem up to that point, and especially if he was talking to his player. I'm all for penalizing coaches for their behavior if need be, but don't get rabbit ears. To me, "damnit" isn't even cursing.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by freddie_g2001

Situation is this: Worked a big Rival 5A double header last night with two very good Officials. Very competitive game although one team was ranked in the top 8 in the state. (Home team) Gym is loud as it has a very good crowd. Home team misses a shot and as I'm running up the floor to be the new Lead, Home Coach Runs the sideline in my direction and Says "DAMN IT", and I Wacked him. After the gym erupted, I went to report my Technical, and the home coach said, "I was talking to my player. (I said Damn It Andre) I believe he really was talking to his player but the fact that he ran in my direction and the gym saw it, it gave the appearance that he was yelling at me. Right or wrong, I stuck with my technical. If he hadn't of cursed in my direction, It could have been avoided. I actually thought I should not have whacked him but It is what it is. I'd appreciate any input on what you think.......Should I have or not? Thanks for your input in advance...freddie_g2001

I've got nothing.