Swinging of Elbows Foul

[McMac]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

To the OP, you said it yourself. A player in control of the ball fouled an opponent. The only way the opponent would be shooting would be if you deemed the play to be an intentional or flagrant foul. Two shots and the ball out of bounds at the spot closest to where the foul occurred. If you reported the foul as a player control and for some reason free throw were shot, this would fall under awarding unmerited free throws which is correctable.

I reported it as swinging of the elbows, not PC. Can I correct that part and cancel the unmerited free throw? I did not judge it as intentional or flagrant. The girl was moving her elbows with the ball in her hands trying to clear some space. She hit the opponent in the upper chest, shoulder area.

[RobbyinTN]

Originally Posted by McMac

I reported it as swinging of the elbows, not PC. Can I correct that part and cancel the unmerited free throw? I did not judge it as intentional or flagrant. The girl was moving her elbows with the ball in her hands trying to clear some space. She hit the opponent in the upper chest, shoulder area.

Regardless of how you reported it, it was an offensive foul. Since you didn't call an intentional or fragrant, there are no foul shots. You correct it by canceling the free throws and giving the ball to the team at POI.

[APG]

Originally Posted by RobbyinTN

Regardless of how you reported it, it was an offensive foul. Since you didn't call an intentional or fragrant, there are no foul shots. You correct it by canceling the free throws and giving the ball to the team at POI.

While that's correct for this situation, one must be careful with this line of thinking. It was a team/player control foul. Under NFHS, we could have free throws shot on what most would call an offensive foul if the foul was during a throw-in, yet we would shoot free throws.

[RobbyinTN]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

While that's correct for this situation, one must be careful with this line of thinking. It was a team/player control foul. Under NFHS, we could have free throws shot on what most would call an offensive foul if the foul was during a throw-in, yet we would shoot free throws.

True - I was speaking of this particular scenario only.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by McMac

I reported it as swinging of the elbows, not PC. Can I correct that part and cancel the unmerited free throw? I did not judge it as intentional or flagrant. The girl was moving her elbows with the ball in her hands trying to clear some space. She hit the opponent in the upper chest, shoulder area.

Yes, you could have corrected it, up until the second live ball after the clock started after the free throws.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by McMac

I reported it as swinging of the elbows, not PC.

One more note - there is no foul for "swinging the elbows," nor a mechanic for reporting such in NFHS.

You may very well know this, but I just wanted to note it as there is no specific rule for fouling with an elbow vs any other body part.

[NEohioref]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

One more note - there is no foul for "swinging the elbows," nor a mechanic for reporting such in NFHS.

You may very well know this, but I just wanted to note it as there is no specific rule for fouling with an elbow vs any other body part.

i agree its a violation unless you think its intentional or flagrant

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by NEohioref

i agree its a violation unless you think its intentional or flagrant

That's not what I'm saying - You are right that there is a swinging the elbows violation. This is for if there is no contact.

If a player is swinging his elbows and makes contact, then you almost certainly have a common, intentional, or flagrant foul. But there is not a specific category of foul for swinging the elbows.

[PG_Ref]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

One more note - there is no foul for "swinging the elbows," nor a mechanic for reporting such in NFHS.

There is a mechanic for "excessively swinging of elbows" violation ... see mechanic #27 in the NFHS manual and page 200 of the IAABO manual.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by PG_Ref

There is a mechanic for "excessively swinging of elbows" violation ... see mechanic #27 in the NFHS manual and page 200 of the IAABO manual.

Yes - but not for fouling with the elbow. That's my point. I'm obviously not being very clear.

[PG_Ref]

Originally Posted by jdw3018

Yes - but not for fouling with the elbow. That's my point. I'm obviously not being very clear.

Understood.