Good luck or not?

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

The state of player-official relations isn't going to change either way.

That's the crux of our disagreement.

The fact is, like it or not, much of what we do has a ripple effect, intended or not. If we come off as unsportsmanlike, it just plain doesn't look good.

JRut nails it. People will draw conclusions, sometimes just to suit them. However, nearly everyone will infer that something is wrong if an official has an aversion to handshakes. That's not hyperbole, nor hysteria (talk about overstatements). That's reality, and it's far from meaningless.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by bainsey

That's the crux of our disagreement.

The fact is, like it or not, much of what we do has a ripple effect, intended or not. If we come off as unsportsmanlike, it just plain doesn't look good.

JRut nails it. People will draw conclusions, sometimes just to suit them. However, nearly everyone will infer that something is wrong if an official has an aversion to handshakes. That's not hyperbole, nor hysteria (talk about overstatements). That's reality, and it's far from meaningless.

I don't think anyone has suggested not shaking hands (or fist bumping) if the players come over. It would, however, be better if they didn't come over.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bainsey

That's the crux of our disagreement.

The fact My opinion is, like it or not, much of what we do has a ripple effect, intended or not. If we come off as unsportsmanlike, it just plain doesn't look good.

Fixed it for you.

Originally Posted by bainsey

JRut nails it. People will draw conclusions, sometimes just to suit them. However, nearly everyone will infer that something is wrong if an official has an aversion to handshakes. That's not hyperbole, nor hysteria (talk about overstatements). That's reality, and it's far from meaningless.

My overstatement was inentional (thus making it hyperbole); but I admit it was an overstatement. You're drawing way too much.

I don't think even Rookie Dude would walk away from a player trying to shake hands or fist bump. Here's your post to which I took exception:

Originally Posted by bainsey

I disagree strongly.

Fair enough. That's what we do around here.

Originally Posted by bainsey

Dissuading sportsmanship is not the way to go.

Generic and unobjectionable opinion.

Originally Posted by bainsey

If the players want to take a few extra seconds and shake/bump our hands, enjoy the respect. I'll even notify the coach of a "best handshake award" (firm, eye contact).

I really hope you're kidding here, so I'll refrain from saying it's stupid. If you're not, and you get laughs with it, well, there's not much more for me to say.

Originally Posted by bainsey

When the teams stress respect for us, it can only make thing better.

Here I disagree. Telling their kids to shake our hands only reinforces a pleasantry; that's it. The best way a coach can stress respect for the officials is to display it during the game; not insist on a meaningless formality before the game.

Originally Posted by bainsey

To even suggest that you don't want handshakes only makes us more distant and unapproachable.

This is hyperbole (it's what I was referring to before); unless you really think RD is going to damage player/official relations by his anonymous statements on an officiating board. In that case, I can't help you.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

Hyperbole is making more of something than it is.

...in something YOU say, not what someone else says.

For example, if I said, "that quarter took forever," that would be an example of hyperbole, because I said it. You can't apply it to what someone else says. ("Misrepresentation" could apply.) I meant what I said, therefore no hyperbole.

Personally, I think it gives the impression of currying favor with the officials, not of sportsmanship.

Are you saying we should be generally cynical and suspect of any player/coach that chooses to be nice? While some people indeed need an individual read on their level of trust, overall, I think we're far better off accepting handshakes/fist bumps as an act of respect, than to waste time wondering what their true motivation is (if any).

Someone once said here that part of our roles is that of a salesman. Salesmen need good interpersonal skills to thrive. They can help you get out of the inevitable damaging situations that will arise.

[Eastshire]

Originally Posted by bainsey

...in something YOU say, not what someone else says.

For example, if I said, "that quarter took forever," that would be an example of hyperbole, because I said it. You can't apply it to what someone else says. ("Misrepresentation" could apply.) I meant what I said, therefore no hyperbole.


Are you saying we should be generally cynical and suspect of any player/coach that chooses to be nice? While some people indeed need an individual read on their level of trust, overall, I think we're far better off accepting handshakes/fist bumps as an act of respect, than to waste time wondering what their true motivation is (if any).

Someone once said here that part of our roles is that of a salesman. Salesmen need good interpersonal skills to thrive. They can help you get out of the inevitable damaging situations that will arise.

Just because you mean it doesn't mean it's not hyperbole.

It doesn't make me think they are currying favor. I think it causes the fans to think they are currying favor. It makes me think they are wasting time on a mostly meaningless gesture.

[bainsey]

Wow, where to start?

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Fixed it for you.

First of all, you never fix someone's quote. That's simply bad form. You leave it alone, with the exception of "[sic]" for misspellings or grammatical errors, and put your thoughts after it.

And more importantly, much of what we do indeed DOES have a ripple effect. That's no opinion. That's a fact, and I'm stunned you can't see that.

Telling their kids to shake our hands only reinforces a pleasantry; that's it. The best way a coach can stress respect for the officials is to display it during the game; not insist on a meaningless formality before the game.

I won't disagree with the latter sentence, but think about the former. What do you think players learn from this mandated pleasantry? RESPECT, sir! And it carries over into the game.

If a player shakes your hand, and you're keeping an attitude of "you're only doing this, kid, because your coach told you to," then you're often dismissing the very respect the coach is trying to teach. If you have knowledge that a coach/player is being disingenuous, then fine, but until then, lighten up a little and enjoy the respect we sometimes claim others lack for us.

This is hyperbole ... unless you really think RD is going to damage player/official relations by his anonymous statements on an officiating board.

Not at all. I'm far more concerned about our actions and attitudes on the floor. That's where it counts.

[Loudwhistle]

Originally Posted by AKOFL

If people in my association put half as much effort into their rule book as you guys do in comming up with thoughts on a crazy hand shake/fist bump they would be pro by now. Not a big deal to me. that is a decision for the kids to make. As for my captains meeting, "Hi, my name is Toma, I'll be hear all night. Don't forget to tip your waitress and try the veal"

Check your private messages

lw

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

I usually say "have fun."

When the kids run by during intros to fist bump us (I hate that, btw), I say "play hard."

I try to avoid saying "good luck" because someone, somewhere is going to mistakenly interpret that as me "rooting" for one team over the other (although if it was in the captain's meeting to both teams, it's less likely)

Ever since I had one captain who had removed his mouthguard to shake hands, I have not ever had a problem with the fist bump.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Eastshire

Just because you mean it doesn't mean it's not hyperbole.

Actually, that falls under the very definition of hyperbole. If you find comments to be disagreeable, that's something else entirely.

It doesn't make me think they are currying favor. I think it causes the fans to think they are currying favor. It makes me think they are wasting time on a mostly meaningless gesture.

Okay, I see your point with the players intent vs. the fans' inference, but I know coaches that insist on this respectful act, and trust me, it isn't meaningless. The long-term effects of a handshake may not always be apparent, but they exist, and go a long way toward collective respect.

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by RookieDude

LOL...that's good...mind if I borrow that?

On a side note: My partners and I were ready to go into the gym last night for a BV game... I had read, on this forum, where some officials tweet their whistles before entering the gym. I told my two partners about it...one said yeah go for it...the other said no, (with a red face). Well, I did it...Man, the whole gym got quiet and watched us as we walked in. It was kinda weird...I don't know if I'll do it again.

Sounds like you were a military volunteer whereby everyone else took a step backwards.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bainsey

Not at all. I'm far more concerned about our actions and attitudes on the floor. That's where it counts.

So you're admitting the part I quoted was, indeed, hyperbole?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bainsey

And more importantly, much of what we do indeed DOES have a ripple effect. That's no opinion. That's a fact, and I'm stunned you can't see that.

It was your stated opinion that expressing (in this forum) a dislike for this formality is somehow going to make us seem "more distant and unapproachable." In that context, your "ripple effect" metaphor is silly opinion.

Originally Posted by bainsey

I won't disagree with the latter sentence, but think about the former. What do you think players learn from this mandated pleasantry? RESPECT, sir! And it carries over into the game.

You don't teach respect to kids through ceremony. They see that crap for what it is. That's my opinion.

Originally Posted by bainsey

If a player shakes your hand, and you're keeping an attitude of "you're only doing this, kid, because your coach told you to," then you're often dismissing the very respect the coach is trying to teach.

No, I'm dismissing a freaking ceremony. I'll judge their respect by how they act during the game. If there's a verified correlation between teams who perform this formality and how they act towards officials during the game, I haven't seen it.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Get a grip and come down from your high horse

"High horse" is indeed an effective methaphor, but it's often used by those who don't want to meet a standard.

It's your stated opinion that expressing (in this forum) a dislike for this formality is somehow going to make us seem "more distant and unapproachable."

Yes, that's my opinion, but that's not what I said. I said "much of what we do has a ripple effect." That's a fact.

You don't teach respect to kids through ceremony. They see that crap for what it is.

So shaking hands is now a crappy move? Wow, you're cynical, and that's my opinion.

Certainly, one who shakes my hand one minute is not going to get away with cursing me out the next, but that's very rare, and I will remember the handshake, because the kids made a effort -- mandated or otherwise -- to be sportsmanlike. That's something that needs to be respected, not scrutinized.

[26 Year Gap]

How many here can remember even one handshake with an official as a player?

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by 26 Year Gap

How many here can remember even one handshake with an official as a player?

I cannot. But then again this was not the practice when I lived. I do remember when people will not shake my hand in and out of officiating. It tells me something about their relationship with me or maybe what they think of me. And yes it is usually not a positive interaction, which is why I continue to say, if you purposely ignore someone trying to give you a handshake that will be remembered by some longer than you think.

Peace