Intentional fouls

[bball_lurker]

I thought I had this rule straight, but I may be mistaken. Is it something like "you must make a play on the ball when you attempt to foul"?

A little prelim, just to set up the feel of the game.

GJV, good game, lights out shooting, both teams score in the 60's.
Team A, up by 5, 30 seconds to go. A1 drives for for fast break layup and gets hard (but not excessive) foul. A1 stays on the floor in obvious pain for about 5 minutes. Teams are huddled up around coaches, team B laughing and having a good time. She eventually gets to the bench, but after the game had to have and ambulance come get her. So in my mind, this game is getting to the border of out of control.

In any case, with 20 seconds to go, A2 gets the steal backcourt and turns it up court. B5 shoves her hard in the back, with 2 hands. Not that it matters, but b5 is the biggest player on the court, A2 one of the smallest.

The refs call common foul. Am I mistaken here?

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by bball_lurker

I thought I had this rule straight, but I may be mistaken. Is it something like "you must make a play on the ball when you attempt to foul"?

A little prelim, just to set up the feel of the game.

GJV, good game, lights out shooting, both teams score in the 60's.
Team A, up by 5, 30 seconds to go. A1 drives for for fast break layup and gets hard (but not excessive) foul. A1 stays on the floor in obvious pain for about 5 minutes. Teams are huddled up around coaches, team B laughing and having a good time. She eventually gets to the bench, but after the game had to have and ambulance come get her. So in my mind, this game is getting to the border of out of control.

In any case, with 20 seconds to go, A2 gets the steal backcourt and turns it up court. B5 shoves her hard in the back, with 2 hands. Not that it matters, but b5 is the biggest player on the court, A2 one of the smallest.

The refs call common foul. Am I mistaken here?

Is a two-handed shove to the back playing the ball? Probably not...

I'd go with a minimum of an intentional foul here. If I thought she tried to injure the player, I've got a flagrant personal foul.

[jTheUmp]

First play: HTBT, but probably just a common foul.

Second play: Intentional foul if it happened as described. Possibly flagrant, but HTBT to make that call.

[Illinoisref]

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee

Is a two-handed shove to the back playing the ball? Probably not...

I'd go with a minimum of an intentional foul here. If I thought she tried to injure the player, I've got a flagrant personal foul.

Absolutely agree!

[bball_lurker]

The first play was just to set the mood of the game, I completely agree it was a common foul.


Now for a much trickier question! We are playing this team again in a few days. Is there any nice friendly way to get a quick rules reminder to the refs?

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by bball_lurker

The first play was just to set the mood of the game, I completely agree it was a common foul.


Now for a much trickier question! We are playing this team again in a few days. Is there any nice friendly way to get a quick rules reminder to the refs?

Yes. Here it is: " ".

[Adam]

Originally Posted by bball_lurker

Now for a much trickier question! We are playing this team again in a few days. Is there any nice friendly way to get a quick rules reminder to the refs?

Not really.

[bball_lurker]

That's what I thought. Ah well, hopefully this one ends a little cleaner!

[Raymond]

Originally Posted by bball_lurker

The first play was just to set the mood of the game, I completely agree it was a common foul.


Now for a much trickier question! We are playing this team again in a few days. Is there any nice friendly way to get a quick rules reminder to the refs?

Multiple answers to this:

1. Do you expect the same officials for the next game?
2. If you don't have the same refs do you expect the next crew to make the same "mistake"?
3. If it is the same crew and they did happen to make a "mistake" what's make you think they didn't learn from it? When you make a mistake coaching do the parents need to remind you not to make it again in the next game?

I'm sure you get the gist of my response. Officials don't really need reminders from coaches. If you feel it's a problem that needs to be addressed then send your concerns to the assignor, commissioner, or state association so that they can decide if the officials need a reminder about a certain rule.

Just my $0.02

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by bball_lurker

I thought I had this rule straight, but I may be mistaken. Is it something like "you must make a play on the ball when you attempt to foul"?

A good rule of thumb, but not absolute.

[Loudwhistle]

second play is at a minimum an intentional

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by bball_lurker

In any case, with 20 seconds to go, A2 gets the steal backcourt and turns it up court. B5 shoves her hard in the back, with 2 hands. Not that it matters, but b5 is the biggest player on the court, A2 one of the smallest.

As others have said, this is a minimum intentional. I tossed a player last year at the end of a game for doing this to an opponent going up for an uncontested layup.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Welpe

As others have said, this is a minimum intentional. I tossed a player last year at the end of a game for doing this to an opponent going up for an uncontested layup.

I had a player do this twice in one game. First one, 2nd quarter, I called intentional. Second one, 3rd quarter, my partner called flagrant. The kid was about 6-4, 250, and the 2nd time he shoved "through" a 5-6 point guard going in for a layup.

[Welpe]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I had a player do this twice in one game. First one, 2nd quarter, I called intentional. Second one, 3rd quarter, my partner called flagrant. The kid was about 6-4, 250, and the 2nd time he shoved "through" a 5-6 point guard going in for a layup.

Sounds like somebody is playing the wrong sport.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Welpe

Sounds like somebody is playing the wrong sport.

Yeah, his dad came looking for us after the game; stopped by game management. Then, his mom called the school (they were the visiting team from about 50 miles away) and complained that we (the officials) had taken his right to play basketball away. Chip off the old block.