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-   -   Worst luck ever (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/60448-worst-luck-ever.html)

CMHCoachNRef Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:06pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by camron rust (Post 714703)
if you think losing $200 is the worst luck ever, you've led a pretty sheltered and painfree life. (maybe becasue your you're very, very young)

i wish the worst loss i had over something was just $200.
amen!!!!

JugglingReferee Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:17pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by representing (Post 714494)
Three games in a row on my schedule got cancelled/postponed.

Friday, Boys JV for $52. Cancelled. Home team lost some players due to injury, education suspension, etc.

Monday, Girls JV for $52. Cancelled. Visiting team lost some players due to injury, education suspension, etc.

Today, Girls Freshmen/JV Doubleheader for $92. Postponed. DAMN EXPECTED SNOWSTORM BETTER SHOW UP!

This is about $200 I missed out on in 5 days. I really do have the worst luck ever. And the worst part is the two JV games won't be made up because the Varsity games played on, and the FR/JV doubleheader was postponed to a day I'm already officiating.

Anyone else feel like we should still be compensated at least half of the referee fee for games cancelled due to reasons other than weather or other major problems like electricity went out, flooding in school because of a plumbing problem, etc.? This really pisses me off that I missed out on $200 in 5 days.
Maybe you should be more concerned about the game and about the players rather than your pocket. It sounds as if you do it for the money.

CMHCoachNRef Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:33pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by JugglingReferee (Post 714745)
Maybe you should be more concerned about the game and about the players rather than your pocket. It sounds as if you do it for the money.
In fairness, Juggling, I think that a very high percentage of those under 30 rate the pay as a top consideration for officiating. I can tell you my two sons -- 15 and 16 -- place pay at the TOP of the list as far as reasons to referee. Are there other reasons? Yes, there are. For the younger ones, the money is very important. It is easy for many of us making good incomes from our "day jobs" to look down on those in less fortunate situations.

Experience may cause Representing to view this situation differently five years from now. For now, this is a big deal, perhaps, for him.

A young guy blowing off some steam about something that could have gone better. We have all encountered coaches in the same position. The best we can do is attempt to understand their position, articulate as best we can the way things are, help them understand why things are the way they are, and hope that information can be applied moving forward.

Adam Tue Jan 11, 2011 10:41pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef (Post 714749)
In fairness, Juggling, I think that a very high percentage of those under 30 rate the pay as a top consideration for officiating. I can tell you my two sons -- 15 and 16 -- place pay at the TOP of the list as far as reasons to referee. Are there other reasons? Yes, there are. For the younger ones, the money is very important. It is easy for many of us making good incomes from our "day jobs" to look down on those in less fortunate situations.

Experience may cause Representing to view this situation differently five years from now. For now, this is a big deal, perhaps, for him.

A young guy blowing off some steam about something that could have gone better. We have all encountered coaches in the same position. The best we can do is attempt to understand their position, articulate as best we can the way things are, help them understand why things are the way they are, and hope that information can be applied moving forward.
+1 Well said.

BktBallRef Tue Jan 11, 2011 11:31pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef (Post 714741)
At the same time, a contract is created between you, the independent contractor, and the school.
You assume that officiating is the same in every state and it isn't.

Here, booking agents are assigned by the state association to book games for specific schools. There is no contract, between the booking agent and the school, the school and the official, or the official and the booking agent. The state association sets the guidelines and everyone follows them. Other states work in a similiar fashion.

representing Wed Jan 12, 2011 12:33am
Just found this in the PIAA's By-Laws:

"If a PIAA member school violates or cancels a contract with
an official, the District Committee or the Board of Directors,
within their respective jurisdictions, may require a school so
violating or so canceling to pay to the offended official the fee or
fees for the Contest or Contests which have been provided in the
official contract. Failure of a PIAA member school to live up to
the terms of the contract shall be considered a violation of the
Constitution and By-Laws of PIAA."

So, if I really wanted to be a dick I could file a complaint with the district or PIAA to get paid the $52 from both home teams because the school cancelled a contractual agreement due to non-weather conditions. Now, nothing in the by-laws says weather, but I'm assuming by "cancellations" they mean any games not made up later in the season.

Adam Wed Jan 12, 2011 01:15am
Check with your respective jurisdiction. Further, just because you can doesn't mean you should. It may cost you more than $200 in the long run.

representing Wed Jan 12, 2011 01:17am
Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 714783)
Check with your respective jurisdiction. Further, just because you can doesn't mean you should. It may cost you more than $200 in the long run.
True. I emailed PIAA about it, going to wait for their response within the next day or two.

Adam Wed Jan 12, 2011 01:36am
Quote:
Originally Posted by representing (Post 714784)
True. I emailed PIAA about it, going to wait for their response within the next day or two.
I really wouldn't push this, my guess is the rule doesn't mean what you hope it means. I'm guessing it's been worked out at the local level through your assigners.

RobbyinTN Wed Jan 12, 2011 01:57am
I had two games Monday night canceled and two games last night canceled - both due to weather and both paying more than you are complaining about. If the snow doesn't melt I will lose two more tomorrow night. It happens. I don't like it because I enjoy calling ball but it isn't like I can do anything about it so I let it go.

Robby

RobbyinTN Wed Jan 12, 2011 02:03am
Quote:
Originally Posted by representing (Post 714776)
Just found this in the PIAA's By-Laws:

So, if I really wanted to be a dick I could file a complaint with the district or PIAA to get paid the $52 from both home teams because the school cancelled a contractual agreement due to non-weather conditions. Now, nothing in the by-laws says weather, but I'm assuming by "cancellations" they mean any games not made up later in the season.
If you think losing these games is crappy wait until you start doing stuff like this and you will probably find that you will lose more games in the future, i.e you won't be assigned.

I hope you aren't this angry when you are calling a game :eek:

representing Wed Jan 12, 2011 03:24am
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobbyinTN (Post 714789)
I had two games Monday night canceled and two games last night canceled - both due to weather and both paying more than you are complaining about. If the snow doesn't melt I will lose two more tomorrow night. It happens. I don't like it because I enjoy calling ball but it isn't like I can do anything about it so I let it go.

Robby
OK, I'm going to try this one more time. JUST FOR CLARIFICATION...

I am NOT complaining about the game I lost due to the weather. I am complaining about the two games I lost due to one team of both games canceling out due to not enough players (injuries, educational suspensions, etc). Schools should be held accountable for non-weather situations causing a cancellation in games. That is all I am saying.

JugglingReferee Wed Jan 12, 2011 07:27am
Quote:
Originally Posted by CMHCoachNRef (Post 714749)
In fairness, Juggling, I think that a very high percentage of those under 30 rate the pay as a top consideration for officiating. I can tell you my two sons -- 15 and 16 -- place pay at the TOP of the list as far as reasons to referee. Are there other reasons? Yes, there are. For the younger ones, the money is very important. It is easy for many of us making good incomes from our "day jobs" to look down on those in less fortunate situations.

Experience may cause Representing to view this situation differently five years from now. For now, this is a big deal, perhaps, for him.

A young guy blowing off some steam about something that could have gone better. We have all encountered coaches in the same position. The best we can do is attempt to understand their position, articulate as best we can the way things are, help them understand why things are the way they are, and hope that information can be applied moving forward.
I can dig that. I was once "under 30".

Though I do hope that he also missed the opportunity to work in a great avocation.

mbyron Wed Jan 12, 2011 08:34am
Quote:
Originally Posted by JugglingReferee (Post 714745)
Maybe you should be more concerned about the game and about the players rather than your pocket. It sounds as if you do it for the money.
Reminds me of something my father said about my chosen line of work (teaching): he said I had taken a "vow of poverty." I respectfully corrected him by pointing out that I chose my work because I love it, and would keep my job even if it paid a lot more.

I would say the same about officiating: I don't do it for the money, I do it because I love it. My primary motivation doesn't require me to return the money, and doesn't make me a hypocrite for keeping it.

The fact, if it is a fact, that many younger officials value the money more than some older officials probably says more about the marginal utility of money than about the officials.

chartrusepengui Wed Jan 12, 2011 09:10am
I don't do this for the money either - I just love doing it which is why I've kept with it so many years. My daughter started doing it for the money. She played in HS and loved it. When she went to college she found she could work at a fast food place or a store and make minimum wage. She asked what games paid and I told her. She asked me to help her get "into" it and I did. She still works the lower level but has done a few JV games. She does a lot of the weekend tournment games. She likes doing it but will also admit a large part of her motivation is that she can make as much in an hour than she would in 5-6 hours somewhere else and has more time to study. It's how she is paying for books etc.


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