Count Out Loud

[GoodwillRef]

20 years of officiating and I had a first last night. Team A is taking the ball out of bounds on the baseline in the backcourt and the player inbounding to ball asked me if I can count out load for her? I told her NO. I told her she is in college and should be able to count to 5 in her head, we had a chuckle together.

[BktBallRef]

Did you consider the possibility she might be blind?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Did you consider the possibility she might be blind?

Blind people can't count to five in their heads?

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Blind people can't count to five in their heads?

Yes, but they can't see how fast or slow the official is counting.

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

20 years of officiating and I had a first last night. Team A is taking the ball out of bounds on the baseline in the backcourt and the player inbounding to ball asked me if I can count out load for her? I told her NO. I told her she is in college and should be able to count to 5 in her head, we had a chuckle together.

Specifically not allowed. 2-7.9 and 2-7.10

[Mark Padgett]

Originally Posted by GoodwillRef

the player inbounding to ball asked me if I can count out load for her?

Sure. "Load, load, load, load, load." And don't be too loud.

[SWMOzebra]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

Specifically not allowed. 2-7.9 and 2-7.10

Agreed. But this past spring I attended the Heart of America Conference camp in Lawrence, KS and observed several of the officials vocalizing their inbound counts (which I have never done).

When I asked one of the clinicians about it, he said they (the referees who worked the HAAC, at least on the women's side) were told it was the preference of the commissioner that an audible count be given.

Perhaps the player asked because they had been the visiting team at a HAAC game and the officials counted for them?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by SWMOzebra

Agreed. But this past spring I attended the Heart of America Conference camp in Lawrence, KS and observed several of the officials vocalizing their inbound counts (which I have never done).

When I asked one of the clinicians about it, he said they (the referees who worked the HAAC, at least on the women's side) were told it was the preference of the commissioner that an audible count be given.

Perhaps the player asked because they had been the visiting team at a HAAC game and the officials counted for them?

NCAA Mens and Womens rules have different criteria in the rule book for time counts. They both specify either visibly or silently however. Neither of the them stipulates audibly for any time count.

Sooooo......you have the case here of a commissioner who is making up his very own rules. When in Rome/When not in Rome now applies.

[Multiple Sports]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

NCAA Mens and Womens rules have different criteria in the rule book for time counts. They both specify either visibly or silently however. Neither of the them stipulates audibly for any time count.

Sooooo......you have the case here of a commissioner who is making up his very own rules. When in Rome/When not in Rome now applies.

Hey guys -

I went to a Coast to Coast school about 15 years ago (Jason Phillips and Matt Boland were campers) and I specifically remember Bob Delaney talking philosophy and saying that counting out loud helped the game.

How many of us tell players to keep moving with regards to the paint so we don't have to call three seconds....................


I have done it for years, it my be wrong but it helps build trust with the players........

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by Multiple Sports

Hey guys -

I went to a Coast to Coast school about 15 years ago (Jason Phillips and Matt Boland were campers) and I specifically remember Bob Delaney talking philosophy and saying that counting out loud helped the game.

How many of us tell players to keep moving with regards to the paint so we don't have to call three seconds....................


I have done it for years, it my be wrong but it helps build trust with the players........

You're still not counting out loud though. The rule book says you are not supposed to count audibly. It doesn't say you can't "remind" players to keep moving in the lane.

I had a player on Tuesday ask me to count out loud on a throw-in as I was bouncing the ball to him. I shook my head no and said I couldn't. He was throwing the ball in again the next time I administered a throw-in and I explained to him briefly that the rules don't allow us to count out loud.

[Multiple Sports]

Originally Posted by zm1283

You're still not counting out loud though. The rule book says you are not supposed to count audibly. It doesn't say you can't "remind" players to keep moving in the lane.

I had a player on Tuesday ask me to count out loud on a throw-in as I was bouncing the ball to him. I shook my head no and said I couldn't. He was throwing the ball in again the next time I administered a throw-in and I explained to him briefly that the rules don't allow us to count out loud.

Can I remind a player that I am at 4 in the 5 second count ?????

[zm1283]

Originally Posted by Multiple Sports

Can I remind a player that I am at 4 in the 5 second count ?????

No, just like you can't remind a player that you're at 2 in the 3 second count in the lane. You can remind them that they need to keep moving in order to avoid a violation, so they really don't know where you are in your count.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Multiple Sports

Hey guys -

I went to a Coast to Coast school about 15 years ago (Jason Phillips and Matt Boland were campers) and I specifically remember Bob Delaney talking philosophy and saying that counting out loud helped the game.

How many of us tell players to keep moving with regards to the paint so we don't have to call three seconds....................


I have done it for years, it my be wrong but it helps build trust with the players........

Sigh.........

Another NBE wannabe that thinks it's just perfectly OK to ignore the approved mechanics of the level they're working and substitute an unauthorized mechanic because they personally happen to feel it's better.

We all talk to players and coaches during games at the high school and college levels. And doing that bears absolutely no relation to verbally counting time counts. They're completely different animals.

Feel free to continue emulating your NBE idols. You're right in saying that it is wrong though at the high school and college levels. We don't get to use our very own personal mechanics, whether we personally like or don't like the ones the rulesmakers have given us.

And btw, build trust with players? You may want to change that to giving one team an unfair advantage not meant under the ruleset they're using.

JMO again.

[26 Year Gap]

Originally Posted by BktBallRef

Did you consider the possibility she might be blind?

Well, WE'RE all blind and we do it all the time, Tony.

[Multiple Sports]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Sigh.........

Another NBE wannabe that thinks it's just perfectly OK to ignore the approved mechanics of the level they're working and substitute an unauthorized mechanic because they personally happen to feel it's better.

We all talk to players and coaches during games at the high school and college levels. And doing that bears absolutely no relation to verbally counting time counts. They're completely different animals.

Feel free to continue emulating your NBE idols. You're right in saying that it is wrong though at the high school and college levels. We don't get to use our very own personal mechanics, whether we personally like or don't like the ones the rulesmakers have given us.

And btw, build trust with players? You may want to change that to giving one team an unfair advantage not meant under the ruleset they're using.

JMO again.

JR - I have a lot of respect for you on this site and you always bring up great points, but just hear me out...........

I take a lot of NBA "PHILOSOPHIES' and apply them to my game. I will admit I am more of a "game manager" than a "play caller". I think that these guys are more accepted by coaches and they are trusted by their assigners a bit more (assigners don't want phone calls).

We have had this conversation before, but I bet that Jim Burr is no better of a play caller than you, but he can diffuse situations better than either than us. That is why the old geezer is working every night !!!!!!!!!!


"over the back fouls" - just give the ball to the right team

call fouls on the bench players - keep the starters in the game


They all do it.............. not saying it is right, just accepted!!!!!!!!



Gotta go, my girl is suffering from post -champagne syndrome !!!!!!!!!!!!