Count Out Loud

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Multiple Sports

Hey guys -

I went to a Coast to Coast school about 15 years ago (Jason Phillips and Matt Boland were campers) and I specifically remember Bob Delaney talking philosophy and saying that counting out loud helped the game.

How many of us tell players to keep moving with regards to the paint so we don't have to call three seconds....................


I have done it for years, it my be wrong but it helps build trust with the players........

Sigh.........

Another NBE wannabe that thinks it's just perfectly OK to ignore the approved mechanics of the level they're working and substitute an unauthorized mechanic because they personally happen to feel it's better.

We all talk to players and coaches during games at the high school and college levels. And doing that bears absolutely no relation to verbally counting time counts. They're completely different animals.

Feel free to continue emulating your NBE idols. You're right in saying that it is wrong though at the high school and college levels. We don't get to use our very own personal mechanics, whether we personally like or don't like the ones the rulesmakers have given us.

And btw, build trust with players? You may want to change that to giving one team an unfair advantage not meant under the ruleset they're using.

JMO again.

[Multiple Sports]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

Sigh.........

Another NBE wannabe that thinks it's just perfectly OK to ignore the approved mechanics of the level they're working and substitute an unauthorized mechanic because they personally happen to feel it's better.

We all talk to players and coaches during games at the high school and college levels. And doing that bears absolutely no relation to verbally counting time counts. They're completely different animals.

Feel free to continue emulating your NBE idols. You're right in saying that it is wrong though at the high school and college levels. We don't get to use our very own personal mechanics, whether we personally like or don't like the ones the rulesmakers have given us.

And btw, build trust with players? You may want to change that to giving one team an unfair advantage not meant under the ruleset they're using.

JMO again.

JR - I have a lot of respect for you on this site and you always bring up great points, but just hear me out...........

I take a lot of NBA "PHILOSOPHIES' and apply them to my game. I will admit I am more of a "game manager" than a "play caller". I think that these guys are more accepted by coaches and they are trusted by their assigners a bit more (assigners don't want phone calls).

We have had this conversation before, but I bet that Jim Burr is no better of a play caller than you, but he can diffuse situations better than either than us. That is why the old geezer is working every night !!!!!!!!!!


"over the back fouls" - just give the ball to the right team

call fouls on the bench players - keep the starters in the game


They all do it.............. not saying it is right, just accepted!!!!!!!!



Gotta go, my girl is suffering from post -champagne syndrome !!!!!!!!!!!!

[shishstripes]

I heard an announcer last week during a game where the score was close late say that the inbounder should ask the official to count audibly for him, and I was thinking unless NCAA rules are different the official cannot count audibly only visually. Why the long discussion? Why create mechanics that give unfair advantages?

[Multiple Sports]

Because we love to debate philosophy and have the Godfathers of this site condemn us.........

No seriously - is it an advantage if we do it throughout the game for both teams ?????????

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Multiple Sports

Because we love to debate philosophy and have the Godfathers of this site condemn us.........

No seriously - is it an advantage if we do it throughout the game for both teams ?????????

No, it's making up your own rules rather than follow the ones that you're given. And that's wrong at ANY level.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Multiple Sports

Because we love to debate philosophy and have the Godfathers of this site condemn us.........

No seriously - is it an advantage if we do it throughout the game for both teams ?????????

No, it's an advantage towards the offenses; it may not mean an advantage to one team, or it may. You give one team a distinct advantage if the other team is a more defensive team.
Giving an unfair advantage to the offense may be ok at the NBA level where it's expected and encouraged to keep the coin flowing into the owners' and players' bank accounts; but not at the amateur levels where we still like to call it "basketball."

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by Multiple Sports

No seriously - is it an advantage if we do it throughout the game for both teams ?????????

Not the point. What other procedures and mechanics contrary to the officials' manual would you like to, on your own, insert into the game?
Rationale like this is why the #1 POE was issued this year.
In the words of our state assistant director (paraphrased), "Who do those guys think they are, making up their own rules and mechanics?"

[BktBallRef]

Originally Posted by Multiple Sports

No seriously - is it an advantage if we do it throughout the game for both teams ?????????

Ah no, we aren't. You are, which means your partners aren't. So when you do it and your partners don, yes it's an advantage when you do it.

Also, if this is such a great mechanic, why aren't all NBA officials doing it? Why aren't all D-1 officials doing it?

NFHS 2010-2011 Points of Emphasis
Individual philosophies and deviations from the rules as they are written and interpreted by the NFHS, negatively impact the basic tenets and fundamentals of the game.

They're talking to you.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Multiple Sports

I take a lot of NBA "PHILOSOPHIES' and apply them to my game. I will admit I am more of a "game manager" than a "play caller". I think that these guys are more accepted by coaches and they are trusted by their assigners a bit more (assigners don't want phone calls).

"over the back fouls" - just give the ball to the right team

call fouls on the bench players - keep the starters in the game

And that tells me all I need to know about you and your NBA philosophies. You just lost any credibility that you might have had imo.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally Posted by Multiple Sports

We have had this conversation before, but I bet that Jim Burr is no better of a play caller than you, but he can diffuse situations better than either than us. That is why the old geezer is working every night !!!!!!!!!!

I will agree with this part.

A nearby local area to me has a very high level official whose greatest talent is on the managing of players and coaches, and not on being the strict rulebook guy.

As for your other quotes, meh, I'll pass.

[26 Year Gap]

If a kid is a good player but is playing whack-a-mole, he deserves his 5.

[DesMoines]

Originally Posted by 26 year gap

if a kid is a good player but is playing whack-a-mole, he deserves his 5.

+1

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Multiple Sports

I take a lot of NBA "PHILOSOPHIES' and apply them to my game. I will admit I am more of a "game manager" than a "play caller". I think that these guys are more accepted by coaches and they are trusted by their assigners a bit more (assigners don't want phone calls).

I honestly do not care about NBA philosophies until I am working an NBA game. Just like I do not use NCAA philosophies that do not apply to a high school game (if it is not applicable). This is one of those things that I would hear and not use because I am not working that level.

Originally Posted by Multiple Sports

We have had this conversation before, but I bet that Jim Burr is no better of a play caller than you, but he can diffuse situations better than either than us. That is why the old geezer is working every night !!!!!!!!!!

Or is that the reason is because they know Jim Burr more than a younger guy that can rule like a deer? I am convinced that there are guys working only because of their status rather than their ability. And they know what they are going to get from guys like Burr rather than a new guy they have not seen as much. I do think his experience is probably on a level many of us are not at soon, but that does not mean those without his experience cannot work either.

Peace