Jump ball v. travel

[BillyMac]

When an airborne player keeps control of an attempted shot that is blocked and is unable to release the ball and returns to the floor with it, that player has not traveled; it is a held ball. If, in this situation, the shooter loses control of the ball because of the block, then this is simply a blocked shot and play continues. If, in this situation, the defender simply touches the ball, and the airborne shooter returns to the floor holding the ball, it’s a traveling violation. When an airborne player tries for goal, sees that the try will be blocked, purposely drops the ball, and picks up the ball after it hits the floor, that player has traveled by starting a dribble with the pivot foot off the floor.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

When an airborne player keeps control of an attempted shot that is blocked and is unable to release the ball and returns to the floor with it, that player has not traveled; it is a held ball. If, in this situation, the shooter loses control of the ball because of the block, then this is simply a blocked shot and play continues. If, in this situation, the defender simply touches the ball, and the airborne shooter returns to the floor holding the ball, it’s a traveling violation. When an airborne player tries for goal, sees that the try will be blocked, purposely drops the ball, and picks up the ball after it hits the floor, that player has traveled by starting a dribble with the pivot foot off the floor.

4.44.3 SITUATION A: A1 jumps to try for goal. B1 also jumps and: (a) slaps the
ball out of A1’s hands; (b) touches the ball but does not prevent A1 from releasing
the ball; (c) touches the ball and A1 returns to the floor holding the ball; or
(d) touches the ball and A1 drops it to the floor and touches it first after it
bounces. RULING: In (a) and (b), the ball remains live. In (c), a traveling violation.
In (d), a violation for starting a dribble with the pivot foot off the floor. Since
the touching did not prevent the pass or try in (b), (c) and (d), the ball remains
live and subsequent action is covered by rules which apply to the situation.

With the exception of (a), not many references to hands here.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

While "basketball sense" can be useful at times, there are also times where what would be the apparent "right" thing to do goes directly against the rules. (Umm, "blarge", anyone?) That's why I posed the initial (albeit far-fetched) question - how far do you go in determining a held ball that does not include the defender's hand(s)? Especially since 4.25.2 does use the word hands.

It is important to remember that the rules are written for typical situations and some not so typical situations but are not necessarily intended to exhaustively cover all possible situations. The principles and philosophies behind the existing rules sometimes need to be used to cover some less common situations such as this despite the fact that the rule explicitly covers only one scenario (hands).

If B1 is caps the ball, even with a forearm, that fits the spirit and intent of this rule even if the rule only mentions hands.

Originally Posted by M&M Guy

Maybe this example is a little more believeable: A1 goes up for a shot, while B1 also jumps up to defend/block the shot. A1 does a double-clutch and tries to go under B1's arms, but ends up pinning the ball against B1's side, and comes down with the ball. Somehow B1's hands or arms never touch the ball. (B1 was trying to stay "straight up" and not foul.) Would you still consider this a blocked shot, and thus a held ball?

For the record, I do not have an answer, just looking for opinions. In the OP, I too would rule a held ball, as a player can hold the ball without using their hands. But the wording of the case play has me thinking...yea, I know, sometimes a dangerous thing...

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

I'd likely rule a held ball here, too, as it seems to fit the intent of the rule.

I'm likely to call that a travel.

When A1 gets the ball stuck between a couple of bodies while driving through the lane, we don't usually consider that a held ball...it usually ends in a travel or a fumble. I'm inclined to call similarly when A1 is attempting a shot and the same thing occurs.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

I'm likely to call that a travel.

When A1 gets the ball stuck between a couple of bodies while driving through the lane, we don't usually consider that a held ball...it usually ends in a travel or a fumble. I'm inclined to call similarly when A1 is attempting a shot and the same thing occurs.

But the rule is different on a shot than otherwise.