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-   -   Technical foul situation (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/60198-technical-foul-situation.html)

just another ref Mon Dec 20, 2010 12:01pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Camron Rust (Post 708704)
While it does say that, I think that it does so without considering DQ's. Someone who is DQ'd is still a team member....even though they can no longer play.
I agree. That was my whole point. Removing the jersey also would not relieve him of the responsibilities of a team member.

Adam Mon Dec 20, 2010 12:08pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 708774)
I agree. That was my whole point. Removing the jersey also would not relieve him of the responsibilities of a team member.
I'm still calling just one T here (for taking off the jersey). The "resentment and disgust" rule was meant, IMO, to apply to the players' attitude towards officials rather than coaches.
If it looks like the player is quitting (which is how I read the OP), I'm not going to punish the team further.

Whether he plays the next game, or even the next quarter, is not material.

Back In The Saddle Mon Dec 20, 2010 02:54pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 708696)
Without looking, it's bench personnel in uniform eligible to become a player.
This guy had fouled out, he was already not eligible, so why did handing the jersey to the coach make him no longer a team member?
There was no foul out mentioned in the OP. Just the player and coach having words, the kid removing his jersey and handing it to the coach, then the kid walking off. To me, and I think this is what Bob was implying as well, that appears to be the kid quitting the team. In which case, I'm going to limit the overall penalty to a single T.

Back In The Saddle Mon Dec 20, 2010 03:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee (Post 708647)
Give the player a "T" under R10-3-6(h).

The new rule (10-5-5) says that the head coach can't let team members leave the bench area for an unauthorized reason. Sooooo....authorize it.

In the COMMENTS ON THE 2010-11 RULES REVISIONS for 10-5-5, it also says team members are required to remain on the court or in the bench area while the game is in progress until each quarter or extra period has officially ended. This happened after the end of a quarter, didn't it?

Don't be a plumber.
Agreed. I've never understood the mentality of wanting to assess multiple Ts for a single act. There are obviously times where it's necessary or required (e.g., coming off the bench to block the last second three-point shot, or a fight situation). But if the kid is throwing a tantrum, and runs afoul of multiple sportsmanship rules, why would any reasonable official want to hand out more than a single T? :confused:

Jurassic Referee Mon Dec 20, 2010 03:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle (Post 708796)
I've never understood the mentality of wanting to assess multiple Ts for a single act. There are obviously times where it's necessary or required (e.g., coming off the bench to block the last second three-point shot, or a fight situation). But if the kid is throwing a tantrum, and runs afoul of multiple sportsmanship rules, why would any reasonable official want to hand out more than a single T? :confused:
Yup. Let the punishment fit the crime. And in this particular situation, the coach didn't commit a crime. All he really did was ...coach.

just another ref Mon Dec 20, 2010 03:13pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle (Post 708795)
There was no foul out mentioned in the OP. Just the player and coach having words, the kid removing his jersey and handing it to the coach, then the kid walking off. To me, and I think this is what Bob was implying as well, that appears to be the kid quitting the team. In which case, I'm going to limit the overall penalty to a single T.
OK, I crossed over this thread with the DQ thread. But I still don't think the fact that a player was no longer in uniform would change things. If he curses the ref on the way out, I think you would certainly T him again for that.

Adam Mon Dec 20, 2010 03:23pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by just another ref (Post 708800)
OK, I crossed over this thread with the DQ thread. But I still don't think the fact that a player was no longer in uniform would change things. If he curses the ref on the way out, I think you would certainly T him again for that.
Sure, and if frogs had wings....

just another ref Mon Dec 20, 2010 03:24pm
With regard to 10-5-5, what is an authorized reason? Can the coach send a player to the locker room to get a roll of tape? Or, in this case, can the coach
kick the player off the team (or accept his resignation from it) without penalty.
I lean toward no technical in this case. Also, apparently the situation in the OP was pretty conspicuous, but in most game situations player could do a lot of coming and going from the bench area without being noticed by the officials.

Jurassic Referee Mon Dec 20, 2010 03:26pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee (Post 708647)
Give the player a "T" under <font color = red>R10-3-6(h)</font>.

The new rule (10-5-5) says that the head coach can't let team members leave the bench area for an unauthorized reason. Sooooo....authorize it.

In the COMMENTS ON THE 2010-11 RULES REVISIONS for 10-5-5, it also says team members are required to remain on the court or in the bench area while the game is in progress until each quarter or extra period has officially ended. This happened after the end of a quarter, didn't it?

Don't be a plumber.
Upon further review, I don't agree with myself.

The incident happened between quarters. The player is bench personnel as JAR pointed out. Give A1 a "T" under R10-4-1(h) and give the head coach an indirect "T" as per R10-4PENALTY Art.1

But that's it. No further "T"S for the walk-off.

Bad self. Bad, bad self.


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