The Official Forum - Attacking ref: "Part of the game"

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- - Attacking ref: "Part of the game" (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/60172-attacking-ref-part-game.html)

Indianaref

Fri Dec 17, 2010 01:46pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JugglingReferee (Post 708127)

Exactly. He had no coaching about the situation prior to talking to the reporter.

But for the most part, the US of A is very forgiving, and the kid will play basketball again somewhere. Though if I was a coach in that area, I wouldn't take him.

I'm all about 2nd chances, however, the statement "...taken away from me...". tells me that he is in the anger stage of remorse.

Welpe

Fri Dec 17, 2010 01:50pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Da Official (Post 708145)

As officials it’s ok to be angry at someone who brings harm to us or a fellow official. The Question is how many of us can eventually forgive?

(Stealing Rut’s quote) :cool:
Peace

I am not angry with him nor do I feel that I am in a position to forgive him for anything. I do believe that actions have consequences and that he should face the appropriate punishment as it seems he will.

Quite frankly, I see his statements as a "yabut"...perhaps that's just me.

jmwking

Fri Dec 17, 2010 01:54pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Padgett (Post 708125)

He'll get a clue when the guilty verdict comes in at court and he is sentenced to some time in jail. After all, being punished for actions such as this is just "part of the game."

He may get a guilty verdict but I doubt on the charges - something will be worked out - but I'd be surprised if he gets prison time (unless he already has a history).

Some sort of community service, and if he stays clean for a year or two his record probably gets expunged.

mbyron

Fri Dec 17, 2010 01:55pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Da Official (Post 708145)

I've heard my colleagues focus on 2 comments he made about his actions "being part of the game" and that the game “was taken away”. But also realize the young man said He felt like he let everybody down by his actions, that he wants to apologize to the official, and what happened on the court “wasn’t acceptable” and wants to apologize to everyone.

Right: he acts out and then thinks that by apologizing he should suffer no consequences. That's the breeding ground of irresponsibility and bad behavior.

And I find it troubling that an official doesn't see the connection between actions and consequences.

BBrules

Fri Dec 17, 2010 02:14pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmwking (Post 708157)

I think you are very accurate here. It's early on in this process, but I, too, think it will be dealt down, perhaps to a misdemeanor (unless the official changes his mind about not wanting to ruin him) with community service. I don't know about the expunging - I don't think the SAO would want to agree to that considering everything. That said, anything could happen in our court system.

bainsey

Fri Dec 17, 2010 02:34pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Da Official (Post 708145)

After listening to the interview, for ME, I have a less negative opinion of the young man. Listening to Holland he doesn't in my opinion (as stated before) appear to be this thoughtless, mean spirited, thug, and bully that society should fear and consequently lock away forever.

I concur. This kid made a very bad choice for which he's rightfully paying the price, but he's no monster.

It's always smart to consider what motivates people to do the things they do, especially the wrong choices. In that second, the kid didn't see a referee. He was a kid who got mad at someone else who, in his eyes, took away something he loved, and he instinctively fought for what he loved.

This kid probably identifies himself primarily, if not entirely, with basketball. He took the disqualification personally -- the worst thing any of us can do -- and the reaction speaks for itself.

As for "part of the game," I guess we can say this kid isn't articulate, either. I believe what he meant was that his competitive fire was still burning, and he felt that fire as he took it out on the guy that tossed him.

Mind you, all of this condones nothing. It may explain some of it, though.

tomegun

Fri Dec 17, 2010 04:31pm

I know how this will be received
I don't care about intent (in the video)
I don't condone what happened
I don't believe in coincidence

Why hasn't anyone mentioned how the trail official did NOT do what he got paid for?
The officials left hand went out at the same time the player's mid section moved back. Did the official push the kid away? Is another angle of the video circulating around the internet?

rockyroad

Fri Dec 17, 2010 04:47pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomegun (Post 708204)

Ok...I'll bite.

Exactly what do you think the T should have/could have done in this situation?

No way do I buy that the C pushed the kid as you are implying. The kid stepped back and then bent forward with arms spread "pleading" his case. I think we have all seen that exact same posture from teenagers who feel they have been somehow mistreated and feel the need to state their case. I know I have seen it thousands of times as a teacher!

Adam	Fri Dec 17, 2010 04:51pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockyroad (Post 708208)

I wondered the same thing.
I see that posture all the time from airmen.

JRutledge

Fri Dec 17, 2010 04:54pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomegun (Post 708204)

I think the official was trying to get by the player and the player got in his face. Yes, did they make some contact? Yes they did, but I do not think it was caused by the official. It think it was caused by the player. This is why I feel we should T kids for these actions more often instead of just letting it go. Players think they can come in our space all the time and then when something happens we are put in the spotlight when we do something about it. I do not fault the official at all. I fault the kid and most of the time nothing happens. I have run into kids accidentally before and none have acted like that.

Peace

rockyroad

Fri Dec 17, 2010 05:34pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snaqwells (Post 708209)

I wondered the same thing.
I see that posture all the time from airmen.

Oh...are you one of the ones my A1C son refers to as "non-ers"???:p

Jurassic Referee

Fri Dec 17, 2010 05:34pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomegun (Post 708204)

+1- same as Rocky...whatinthehell did the trail not do that he was supposed to do? :confused:

I also don't believe what you think you saw actually happened. JMO obviously.

Jurassic Referee

Fri Dec 17, 2010 05:38pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by JRutledge (Post 708210)

I think the official was trying to get by the player and the player got in his face. Yes, did they make some contact? Yes they did, but I do not think it was caused by the official. It think it was caused by the player. <font color = red>This is why I feel we should T kids for these actions more often instead of just letting it go. Players think they can come in our space all the time and then when something happens we are put in the spotlight when we do something about it</font>. I do not fault the official at all. I fault the kid and most of the time nothing happens. I have run into kids accidentally before and none have acted like that.

Good point imo, Jeff, and relevant to all situations- not just this one. There's never a good reason for a player to get in any official's face, no matter how badly we screw up.

Adam	Fri Dec 17, 2010 05:42pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by rockyroad (Post 708225)

Oh...are you one of the ones my A1C son refers to as "non-ers"???:p

I have no idea, so probably. :D

BktBallRef

Fri Dec 17, 2010 09:43pm

Quote:

Originally Posted by Da Official (Post 708145)

Since this is an open forum I will give my opinion too...

After listening to the interview, for ME, I have a less negative opinion of the young man. Listening to Holland he doesn't in my opinion (as stated before) appear to be this thoughtless, mean spirited, thug, and bully that society should fear and consequently lock away forever.

I am not an attorney so I can't say if this interview seriously hurt him in the upcoming legal issues he will probably face but for some this interview shed a different light than the one the world has seen constantly on You Tube and most news stations.

I've heard my colleagues focus on 2 comments he made about his actions "being part of the game" and that the game “was taken away”. But also realize the young man said He felt like he let everybody down by his actions, that he wants to apologize to the official, and what happened on the court “wasn’t acceptable” and wants to apologize to everyone.

As officials it’s ok to be angry at someone who brings harm to us or a fellow official. The Question is how many of us can eventually forgive?

Only one person is in a position to consider whether he wants to forgive him or not...that's the official he assualted.

Ask yourself this. Is he contrite and apologetic because he's remorseful for what he did or because he can no longer play basketball and is facing possible felony assault charges?

I lean toward the latter.

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