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-   -   Attacking ref: "Part of the game" (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/60172-attacking-ref-part-game.html)

Rich Sat Dec 18, 2010 11:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee (Post 708458)
Nope, I seen too many of your back-stabbing, whiny complaining posts over the years to ever confuse you with anybody else, or somebody that I respected as an official either. And this thread is just more proof of that. And as you said in one of your posts, I don't believe in coincidences either. I knew that if anyone showed up to inject some implications into this thread that it might somehow have been the officials' fault, it would be you. You're notorious for doing that. And sure enough, here comes Tomegun questioning both the C and T's actions, implying they both could have done something different or better. What you don't post though is what the guys maybe could have done better or done differently that maybe might have avoided the unfortunate altercation. As usual, absoutely nothing constructive or helpful came from you...just the usual inference that this clusterf**k was somehow the officials' fault.

Honestly, I'd be afraid to turn my back on you if I ever had you as a partner.

Jmo Tom. I know you really don't respect that either. So I doubt either of us is going to be losing any sleep over this one.
I'm happy to look at the officials' mechanics and see where they could be better.

But there's a limit to that. There's nothing, NOTHING in this video that suggests to me that these guys could've done anything to prevent this. Trying to do so would be blaming the victim(s), IMO.

rockyroad Sat Dec 18, 2010 11:21pm
So tomegun, just to clear things up here...

Are you saying that there are things we, as officials, can learn from this horrible situation that will help us improve in our avocation?

Or are you saying this mess was somehow the officials' fault - especially the T?

If you are saying the first - I would agree with you wholeheartedly. But if you are even remotely thinking the second, then you really are "crapping" on a fellow official.

Adam Sat Dec 18, 2010 11:39pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockyroad (Post 708489)
So tomegun, just to clear things up here...

Are you saying that there are things we, as officials, can learn from this horrible situation that will help us improve in our avocation?

Or are you saying this mess was somehow the officials' fault - especially the T?

If you are saying the first - I would agree with you wholeheartedly. But if you are even remotely thinking the second, then you really are "crapping" on a fellow official.
Honestly, I think tomegun has made it clear he's not saying the officials bear any fault at all in this. He's said it multiple times in fact.

I do, however, think this is an inappropriate video to start picking apart such miniscule details as whether or not the C should have hung back as long as he did.

tomegun Sun Dec 19, 2010 01:49am
Quote:
Originally Posted by rockyroad (Post 708489)
So tomegun, just to clear things up here...

Are you saying that there are things we, as officials, can learn from this horrible situation that will help us improve in our avocation?

Or are you saying this mess was somehow the officials' fault - especially the T?

If you are saying the first - I would agree with you wholeheartedly. But if you are even remotely thinking the second, then you really are "crapping" on a fellow official.
The first one without a doubt. The kid was dead wrong and he will hopefully get what is coming to him. Thank you for asking a question and allowing me to answer. Contrary to popular belief, I'm on the side of the officials. I just look at almost every play as a learning opportunity.

Jurassic Referee Sun Dec 19, 2010 06:50am
Quote:
Originally Posted by richmsn (Post 708487)
there's nothing, nothing in this video that suggests to me that these guys could've done anything to prevent this. Trying to do so would be blaming the victim(s), imo.
+1

rockyroad Sun Dec 19, 2010 11:20am
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomegun (Post 708545)
The first one without a doubt. The kid was dead wrong and he will hopefully get what is coming to him. Thank you for asking a question and allowing me to answer. Contrary to popular belief, I'm on the side of the officials. I just look at almost every play as a learning opportunity.
Glad we cleared that up!:p

While I would love to have seen the T have a whistle on this original shove/contact, the C hanging around to help out with the pressure on the throw-in is OK and something that I do and pre-game with my partners. Especially if there have been any "shenanigans" earlier in the game.

Would a double-whistle have averted the assault? I really don't think so - it just seems like the kid was primed for something and went after someone. If it's a double whistle, maybe he goes after the T instead, but what difference does that make?

So I don't really have any big issue with the way the crew handled this.

Raymond Sun Dec 19, 2010 12:02pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomegun (Post 708297)
Hey, I knew my comments wouldn't be received well. I think Rut is the only one (so far) to see it rationally and I have no problem with his response. I was just wondering why nobody mentioned it.

As far as what the trail did NOT do? Are you guys serious? What else did the trail have to look at other than two kids who were pushing each other? The C called what the trail failed to call. That is all I'm saying and...hold on let me look at it for the 100th time...yep, the trail has a count and either looks right past this match-up to the ball or ignores it. There were three players...hold on let me look at it for the 101st time...yep, three players in the backcourt so the C really should have been focusing elsewhere.

The kid was dead wrong for what he did, BUT there are other things to consider in this video.
Tom, I'm answering from Pg3 so I may be repeating what someone else already said.

First, I agree the Trail should have had better eyes on this play. But that's where our agreements end.

When I'm the C on a made free throw I'm not releasing until the ball is inbounded. The initial shoving that occurred happened immediately after the throw-in and easily within the peripheral of the C's eyesight. And when the initial shoving occurred there were at least 5 players still in the backcourt, maybe even 6. So the C was properly covering the court on this play, IMO.

Also, there is no way the C pushed the player. The player jumped back as a reaction the Technical call.

Now, as far as you blaming the officials for what happened, :rolleyes: I missed those posts. Maybe someone could quote one of those posts for me since I can't find them.

tomegun Sun Dec 19, 2010 02:18pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by BadNewsRef (Post 708581)
Now, as far as you blaming the officials for what happened, :rolleyes: I missed those posts. Maybe someone could quote one of those posts for me since I can't find them.
I didn't, but you know how some people are.

Adam Sun Dec 19, 2010 02:25pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomegun (Post 708590)
I didn't, but you know how some people are.
Nope, the closest you came was saying you didn't know whether things would have been different had they done things as you suggest.

As far as I'm concerned, that's not very close to it even if I disagree.

bob jenkins Sun Dec 19, 2010 06:58pm
Quote:
Originally Posted by tomegun (Post 708366)
The C should not let 7 players go down the court and stay with three players and the Trail.
I didn't read all of this thread, but we usualy use "C with the second-to-last defender" or "C with the last 2/3 of the pack"

REFVA Thu Dec 23, 2010 12:26pm
Hope everyone is doing well, happy Holidays,
The act by that young man is un-acceptable and hopefully gets what he diserves. At my last association meeting last week, It was 100% in agreement, there was nothing that fellow official had done to have that player react that way. Totally horific behavior by that player. The sad part is that I'm seeing more and more act of violence off the court as well not only from players but fans. I did a Varsity boys game last year that we had to have sheriffs escort us to our vehicles. I love officiating very much but this is getting ridiculous..


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