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Old Thu Dec 16, 2010, 07:23pm
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Ginobli - What cha got?
I'm a big Manu fan but he may have gotten away with something here. Assuming this isn't the NBE with special rules for special players, in just any ole' game what have you got here:

YouTube - Manu's step-back buzzer beater
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Old Thu Dec 16, 2010, 07:28pm
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Legal play under NBA rules. A player is allowed two steps after the ball is gathered. In the play, the ball is gathered with his right foot on the floor. The first step is step back with the left foot. The second step occurs on the jump stop. Ginobli would not be able to pivot after this jump stop.

Know that this would be illegal under NFHS and NCAA rules.
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Last edited by APG; Thu Dec 16, 2010 at 07:35pm. Reason: spelling
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Old Thu Dec 16, 2010, 07:29pm
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This looks like a jump stop to me. He just does it backwards.

If it is a travel, explain why? I only see one possibility why it would be and I cannot tell for sure if what I think happened did. And if you cannot explain why, then to me you should not be calling a travel.

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Old Thu Dec 16, 2010, 07:31pm
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Here's the play for everyone's convenience.
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Old Thu Dec 16, 2010, 07:33pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer View Post
Legal play under NBA rules.

Know that this would be illegal under NBA and NCAA rules.
Huh?
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Old Thu Dec 16, 2010, 07:35pm
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Even in leagues where a step and two foot stop is allowed I think this is a travel. He gets a step and a 1-2 stop thats 3 steps.
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Old Thu Dec 16, 2010, 07:35pm
APG APG is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee View Post
Huh?
Simple mistype...corrected the error.
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Old Thu Dec 16, 2010, 07:37pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pantherdreams View Post
Even in leagues where a step and two foot stop is allowed I think this is a travel. He gets a step and a 1-2 stop thats 3 steps.
This is not a travel under NBA rules...the first step by rule occurs AFTER the ball is gathered. The ball is gathered with the right foot on the floor. He steps back with the left foot which is the first step. The second step occurs with the jump stop. Completely legal.
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Old Thu Dec 16, 2010, 07:38pm
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I am answering without reading any posts, including the OP. Hell yeah he travelled.
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Old Thu Dec 16, 2010, 07:40pm
APG APG is offline
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In fact, here's a case book play that's the exactly play in question.

NBA Case Book (2010-2011)

382. Player A1 drives to the basket, gathers the ball with his left foot on the floor, steps and, clearly jumps off his right foot and lands simultaneously with both feet (jump stop). What are his options?

Player A1 may jump to pass or shoot but is not allowed to pivot or “step through”.
RULE 10 - SECTION XIII - b
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Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is.
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Old Thu Dec 16, 2010, 07:42pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer View Post
This is not a travel under NBA rules...the first step by rule occurs AFTER the ball is gathered. The ball is gathered with the right foot on the floor. He steps back with the left foot which is the first step. The second step occurs with the jump stop. Completely legal.
There is no jump stop - After he takes the step back the feet land independently making 3 step after the gather.
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Coach: Hey ref I'll make sure you can get out of here right after the game!

Me: Thanks, but why the big rush.

Coach: Oh I thought you must have a big date . . .we're not the only ones your planning on F$%&ing tonite are we!
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Old Thu Dec 16, 2010, 07:45pm
APG APG is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pantherdreams View Post
There is no jump stop - After he takes the step back the feet land independently making 3 step after the gather.
He landed on both fee simultaneously. Sequence was right foot on the floor when the ball was gathered, step back with the left (1st step), and then landed on both after that (2nd step).
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Chaos isn't a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some, given a chance to climb, they refuse. They cling to the realm, or the gods, or love. Illusions.

Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is.
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Old Thu Dec 16, 2010, 08:08pm
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First time through, it looked like a legitimate jump stop by NFHS rules, only moving backwards. There's nothing inherently wrong with that; three point shooters use the move all the time to get squared (they just don't typically move backwards).

However, the others are right, I see the left foot coming down after he gathered on the right foot. He jump stops off the left foot, but that's a travel by NCAA and NFHS rules.

I have no idea about NBA rules.
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Old Thu Dec 16, 2010, 08:21pm
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HS and NCAA, travel. NBA, legal.
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Old Thu Dec 16, 2010, 08:24pm
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snaqwells View Post
First time through, it looked like a legitimate jump stop by NFHS rules, only moving backwards. There's nothing inherently wrong with that; three point shooters use the move all the time to get squared (they just don't typically move backwards).

However, the others are right, I see the left foot coming down after he gathered on the right foot. He jump stops off the left foot, but that's a travel by NCAA and NFHS rules.

I have no idea about NBA rules.
But how many people would see that? Better yet, how many could describe that when they call a travel? I think most would call a travel because it looked funny, not because they can say exactly why it is a travel.

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