Ginobli - What cha got?

[Pantherdreams]

Originally Posted by AllPurposeGamer

This is not a travel under NBA rules...the first step by rule occurs AFTER the ball is gathered. The ball is gathered with the right foot on the floor. He steps back with the left foot which is the first step. The second step occurs with the jump stop. Completely legal.

There is no jump stop - After he takes the step back the feet land independently making 3 step after the gather.

[APG]

Originally Posted by Pantherdreams

There is no jump stop - After he takes the step back the feet land independently making 3 step after the gather.

He landed on both fee simultaneously. Sequence was right foot on the floor when the ball was gathered, step back with the left (1st step), and then landed on both after that (2nd step).

[Adam]

First time through, it looked like a legitimate jump stop by NFHS rules, only moving backwards. There's nothing inherently wrong with that; three point shooters use the move all the time to get squared (they just don't typically move backwards).

However, the others are right, I see the left foot coming down after he gathered on the right foot. He jump stops off the left foot, but that's a travel by NCAA and NFHS rules.

I have no idea about NBA rules.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

First time through, it looked like a legitimate jump stop by NFHS rules, only moving backwards. There's nothing inherently wrong with that; three point shooters use the move all the time to get squared (they just don't typically move backwards).

However, the others are right, I see the left foot coming down after he gathered on the right foot. He jump stops off the left foot, but that's a travel by NCAA and NFHS rules.

I have no idea about NBA rules.

But how many people would see that? Better yet, how many could describe that when they call a travel? I think most would call a travel because it looked funny, not because they can say exactly why it is a travel.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

But how many people would see that? Better yet, how many could describe that when they call a travel? I think most would call a travel because it looked funny, not because they can say exactly why it is a travel.

Peace

From the camera angle, it's difficult to see; from the angle of either T or C (not sure who's where on this), it wouldn't be that difficult. But it would also be easy to miss.

In high school, it would be easy from the proper position. He's not exactly Michael Johnson out there.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

From the camera angle, it's difficult to see; from the angle of either T or C (not sure who's where on this), it wouldn't be that difficult. But it would also be easy to miss.

In high school, it would be easy from the proper position. He's not exactly Michael Johnson out there.

I think it might be hard to see in real time. At least to the point you could explain it. And if I cannot explain it, I am not calling it. I do not call travels because they look funny, I call them becasue I can identify why they are illegal movements. But we all miss travels and I just hate the position that people say, "Sure it is a travel" when they cannot explain it. When I evaluate guys at camp that is a question I ask. Most of the time I cannot get an explanation and that is not how we should be calling these plays. If we can explain a foul, we should be able to explain a travel.

Peace

[Adam]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

I think it might be hard to see in real time. At least to the point you could explain it. And if I cannot explain it, I am not calling it. I do not call travels because they look funny, I call them becasue I can identify why they are illegal movements. But we all miss travels and I just hate the position that people say, "Sure it is a travel" when they cannot explain it. When I evaluate guys at camp that is a question I ask. Most of the time I cannot get an explanation and that is not how we should be calling these plays. If we can explain a foul, we should be able to explain a travel.

Peace

I agree with all this; but I don't think this travel would be difficult to see in real time from the proper position. It would, however, be easy to miss because it happens so quickly. If you asked me, I would simply tell you he established a pivot foot when he gathered the ball; then he proceeded to lift it and return it before shooting.

[btaylor64]

I just don't get where some people are saying he has gathered with his right foot??? He doesn't bring the ball together to both hands (gather) until he is on his left foot meaning that the jump stop is step one, if he had wanted to he could've even pivoted after the jump stop. That is a legal play at any level of ball...

[APG]

Originally Posted by btaylor64

I just don't get where some people are saying he has gathered with his right foot??? He doesn't bring the ball together to both hands (gather) until he is on his left foot meaning that the jump stop is step one, if he had wanted to he could've even pivoted after the jump stop. That is a legal play at any level of ball...

I agree it's close. I did see a view on ESPN earlier today from the baseline that convinced me that Manu gathered the ball with the right foot on the floor.

I think the important thing is it's pretty conclusive that this play was legal.

[APG]

Speaking of Manu, just took a charge on Carmelo Anthony to wipe out a game winning lay-up and win the game. Outstanding call by Rodney Mott and Haywoode Workman.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by btaylor64

I just don't get where some people are saying he has gathered with his right foot??? He doesn't bring the ball together to both hands (gather) until he is on his left foot meaning that the jump stop is step one, if he had wanted to he could've even pivoted after the jump stop. That is a legal play at any level of ball...

Stick to the NBA rules, Ben. You don't know the other ones that well. Even if what you say above is true, you still can't legally pivot under both NCAA and NFHS rules after gathering the ball with one foot on the floor and then jumping of that foot to land simultaneously on both feet. Never could. Still can't.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by btaylor64

I just don't get where some people are saying he has gathered with his right foot??? He doesn't bring the ball together to both hands (gather) until he is on his left foot meaning that the jump stop is step one, if he had wanted to he could've even pivoted after the jump stop. That is a legal play at any level of ball...

Where in the hell did you get that definition of "gathered?" He ends his dribble with the right foot on the floor, steps backwards with his left, then jumps and lands on both feet simultaneously. NFHS and NCAA, this is a travel as soon as that right foot hits the floor.

[jdw3018]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Where in the hell did you get that definition of "gathered?" He ends his dribble with the right foot on the floor, steps backwards with his left, then jumps and lands on both feet simultaneously. NFHS and NCAA, this is a travel as soon as that right foot hits the floor.

I actually think there's room for debate on whether he had gathered the ball before the right foot came off the ground. At first blush I thought for sure he had. After watching the replays I felt less certain. I believe it may be a legal play under NFHS or NCAA rules.

It definitely is (as has been established here) by NBA standards.

[Camron Rust]

HS and NCAA, travel. NBA, legal.

[bainsey]

Originally Posted by Camron Rust

HS and NCAA, travel. NBA, legal.

Hence the reason we hear "that wasn't a travel!" objections at the scholastic levels.