How do you cover this?

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

The post defender has her knee up the offensive player's backside and is trying to move her off her spot. It's not quite enough that I would whistle a foul, but she's definitely got my attention.

It's enough that I would call the foul, from that description. That's exactly what the FED has been trying to get us to do through numerous, almost yearly POE's.

But that's just me.

[CaRef5]

probably go with B. definitely share information with your partner.

the goal is to get the play right, not what was easier to call (travelling your partner had, most likely, to get the game going)


I could see how you let the initial contact slide though.

[BBrules]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

It's enough that I would call the foul, from that description. That's exactly what the FED has been trying to get us to do through numerous, almost yearly POE's.

But that's just me.

+1 It would have also shortstopped all the consternation that happened afterward.

[rockyroad]

If the post defender "has your attention" and then fouls the offensive post player, why would you not have a whistle and a foul? Once your L went out on the ball, you are responsible for the post play. Blow your whistle and make the foul call.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

If the post defender "has your attention" and then fouls the offensive post player, why would you not have a whistle and a foul? Once your L went out on the ball, you are responsible for the post play. Blow your whistle and make the foul call.

This is a very good question. There are two reasons I didn't have a whistle, and why I'm still questioning whether I should have a whistle on this.

First, the contact I considered a foul happened at the end of the play. By then my partner was turning into the play and had an immediate whistle. One of the basic tenets I subscribe to for calling in my secondary is: be right, be needed, be late. So my initial reaction is to hold my whistle for half a beat so my partner has first crack at it (since it's his primary). I didn't discover that he had something other than the foul until he was signalling the travel.

Second, the way the play unfolded. I would have had to make a call from trail on a play that was perceived to be right in front of my partner. I would be perceived to be "overruling" my partner. Right or wrong, that's a very slippery slope. And most of the folks I've asked locally about this play have basically said that, in their opinion, you have to let your partner live or die with his call because of this.

[rockyroad]

Originally Posted by Back In The Saddle

This is a very good question. There are two reasons I didn't have a whistle, and why I'm still questioning whether I should have a whistle on this.

First, the contact I considered a foul happened at the end of the play. By then my partner was turning into the play and had an immediate whistle. One of the basic tenets I subscribe to for calling in my secondary is: be right, be needed, be late. So my initial reaction is to hold my whistle for half a beat so my partner has first crack at it (since it's his primary). I didn't discover that he had something other than the foul until he was signalling the travel.

Second, the way the play unfolded. I would have had to make a call from trail on a play that was perceived to be right in front of my partner. I would be perceived to be "overruling" my partner. Right or wrong, that's a very slippery slope. And most of the folks I've asked locally about this play have basically said that, in their opinion, you have to let your partner live or die with his call because of this.

My response to your two reasons would be: YOU saw the entire play, start - develop - finish. That makes it YOUR call more than your partners' call. To me, the official who sees the entire play trumps the lines we draw on the court to say "this is my area and that is yours." If I was the L in this play, I would want and EXPECT you to come in with a whistle and get the call right.

[Camron Rust]

Originally Posted by rockyroad

My response to your two reasons would be: YOU saw the entire play, start - develop - finish. That makes it YOUR call more than your partners' call. To me, the official who sees the entire play trumps the lines we draw on the court to say "this is my area and that is yours." If I was the L in this play, I would want and EXPECT you to come in with a whistle and get the call right.

Yup.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

It's enough that I would call the foul, from that description. That's exactly what the FED has been trying to get us to do through numerous, almost yearly POE's.

But that's just me.

Originally Posted by BBrules

+1 It would have also shortstopped all the consternation that happened afterward.

It's hard to argue with this.

[Back In The Saddle]

It seems to me that this question really is applicable to any situation where an official has a play in his secondary where his partner, whose primary it is, comes late to the play. And in NCAA-W mechanics, you can have this exact play even with three person.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

It's enough that I would call the foul, from that description. That's exactly what the FED has been trying to get us to do through numerous, almost yearly POE's.

But that's just me.

It's why I said (A). I have a foul before that ball gets in there.

I've been working hard in the early season to clean up post play and screening. I had 4 illegal screens against one team in one half in a boys game last week and the coach could only tell his players to clean it up, that it was obvious I was going to call it.

A knee in the butt is a foul. I'll talk once if I'm the L. If I'm the T picking up secondary coverage and there's a hold or a knee in the butt, I'm calling a foul.

[SWMOzebra]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

It's enough that I would call the foul, from that description. That's exactly what the FED has been trying to get us to do through numerous, almost yearly POE's.

+1.

OK, so you might have to give it your very best sell. OK, you might have to explain to the coach you extended your primary into your partner's area to help with off-ball coverage. If there is displacement in the post, we've got to go in and clean it up.

[Rich]

Originally Posted by SWMOzebra

+1.

OK, so you might have to give it your very best sell. OK, you might have to explain to the coach you extended your primary into your partner's area to help with off-ball coverage. If there is displacement in the post, we've got to go in and clean it up.

We can use the terms secondary and primary all we want, but the truth is, in 2-person, our primary frequently involves the 8 players off ball. If the ball is in the corner and the L is covering that matchup (which he must) my primary includes all the other players not in the line of sight of that L.

2-person forces us to extend at times in ways we would never extend in 3-person. No apologies from me. I'll come in hard and sell the call, but I'm not explaining coverage areas to a coach.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally Posted by Jurassic Referee

It's enough that I would call the foul, from that description. That's exactly what the FED has been trying to get us to do through numerous, almost yearly POE's.

But that's just me.

JR:

Great (and old) minds think alike, .

MTD, Sr.