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Trainwreck, what's the call
Had the following play recently. Seeking guidance and advice
Both teams in double bonus B is deployed in 3/4 court zone press B3 is stationary at division line, 8 ft from sideline, as part of press defense defense A1 inbounds ball to A5. A5 throws a lead pass over the head of wing player A2 who runs toward the division line, looking backward while trying to receive pass. A2 muffs the pass and immediately trainwrecks with B3, who never left his spot Your call
BTW, I had block on B3, A2 to FT line for bonus Thanks
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Lah me.. (In honor of Jurassic Ref, R.I.P.) |
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Charging foul on A1. B1 got to a spot legally first and sounds like he respected the elements of time and distance.
Team control foul.
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Chaos isn't a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some, given a chance to climb, they refuse. They cling to the realm, or the gods, or love. Illusions. Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is. Last edited by APG; Sun Dec 05, 2010 at 01:56pm. Reason: reread OP and changed post to be control |
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I agree that this can't be a foul on B3 if he "never left his spot", but. . .
It's a team control foul, so no free throws. |
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I missed the part about the ball being already inbounded. Yes, it would be a team control foul.
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Chaos isn't a pit. Chaos is a ladder. Many who try to climb it fail and never get to try again. The fall breaks them. And some, given a chance to climb, they refuse. They cling to the realm, or the gods, or love. Illusions. Only the ladder is real. The climb is all there is. |
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B3 was passive during this play til he got splattered by A2, and I consider that he didn't allow A2 the requisite time and distance, ergo Block.
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Lah me.. (In honor of Jurassic Ref, R.I.P.) Last edited by justacoach; Sun Dec 05, 2010 at 02:03pm. |
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Failed to allow time and distance to moving player without the ball
4-23-5, p 32 Rules, 10.6.11, p-94 Case
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Lah me.. (In honor of Jurassic Ref, R.I.P.) |
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I'm not trying to play "gotcha" or to be sarcastic (unusual for me, I know). But I honestly have no idea what this question means.
If B3 is planted like a tree since last Tuesday, and somebody runs over him, it just can't be a foul on B3, regardless if that other player has the ball or not or saw B3 there or not. |
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Nutshell question. Is B3, minding his own business, a defender a screener, or neither!!! and can actions beyond his control impact his status? When do we consider B3, with his generic rights to his spot on the floor, to have morphed into a guarder (or screener) of A2 and for B3 to be obliged to yield time and distance to A2, the guardee, or as I prefer, the screenee? see 4-23, 4&5 I contend that B3 has his status changed from innocuously taking up space to a defender (or screener) based on the actions of A2 that draw B3 into the action. When B3 was drawn into the action he impeded A2's continued pursuit of the muffed pass by being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Conversely, if A2 makes a clean catch, PC all the way
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Lah me.. (In honor of Jurassic Ref, R.I.P.) Last edited by justacoach; Sun Dec 05, 2010 at 02:43pm. |
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Time and distance applies from the time the guard estabishes his position. Since B3 was stationary when the ball was inbounded and never moved, then he gave A2 time and distance to avoid contact. Charging, team control foul on A2.
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"...as cool as the other side of the pillow." - Stuart Scott "You should never be proud of doing the right thing." - Dean Smith |
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You're over-thinking the play. |
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Owner/Developer of RefTown.com Commissioner, Portland Basketball Officials Association Last edited by Camron Rust; Sun Dec 05, 2010 at 02:54pm. |
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Nutshell question. Is B3, minding his own business, a defender a screener, or neither!!! and can actions beyond his control impact his status?
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Lah me.. (In honor of Jurassic Ref, R.I.P.) |
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Overthinking
Again, you are over thinking the play. B3 is a defender as team A is on offense ergo players from team B are on defense; B3 is a defender. He can also be a screener, and that status can be on offense or defense. You made the point that if A2 caught the ball and crashed into B3, then you call PC. The only difference between your block or PC is the status of the ball. This action beyond the control of B3, does not impact the status of B3. He is still legal. PC.
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Justa, under the rules his status simply doesn't matter except for whether B3 has established or didn't establish a legal position on the court prior to the contact. It's the same principle as any player on the floor rebounding. All 10 players on the court can establish a legal position during that rebound and their opponents can't run into 'em or push 'em away from that position once it was legally established.
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