Pants: Sansabelt vs. Smitty

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Is appearance important? Definitely. Is it as important as the performance on the floor? I say definitely not.

Being dressed properly gets you the benefit of the doubt on the first close call. After that, it is up to the performance of the referee. That's all most of us are saying. But, don't minimize the value of that benefit of the doubt.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Oh?

I'm guessing here, but I think Rich's point is that someone who cares about the whole package is less likely to be a problem partner. He's more likely to accept constructive critique. He's less likely to go fishing because that travel had to be called (even though it was wrong because he didn't see the fumble). Your partner knowing the rules won't prevent him from calling what he thinks is a double dribble right in front of you; taking the craft seriously does that.

And the first and most obvious sign of whether he takes it seriously is whether he knows which pants/shirt/shoes/whistle to buy.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by BillyMac

I've been around the block a few times, so I remember when coaches wore ties, and jackets, during games. It's taken me a while to get used to coaches wearing "business casual" (school logo polo shirts, khaki pants) but I've come to accept that this still looks professional. I cannot get used to the few coaches we have in our area that go down one step further, sweat suits. To me this is "practice wear". It's not like they're going to call timeout in a game, bring their team over to the nearest basket, and demonstrate the over under move.

The funny thing about that it was not officials that pointed out his clothes, it was fans and people that did not even know much about coaching personally and they felt he looked unprofessional. So if fans that had no association with his team noticed this and were taken aback by his clothes, what do you think a fan might notice about us? But to JAR I guess we can show up in anything and not be expected to be judged accordingly.

Peace

[just another ref]

Originally Posted by JRutledge

The funny thing about that it was not officials that pointed out his clothes, it was fans and people that did not even know much about coaching personally and they felt he looked unprofessional. So if fans that had no association with his team noticed this and were taken aback by his clothes, what do you think a fan might notice about us? But to JAR I guess we can show up in anything and not be expected to be judged accordingly.

Peace

There is a lot of slack between "being appropriately attired" and "showing up in anything." If I had a partner show up to call varsity games in black jeans, I, too, would be taken aback. Both sides have overstated their positions on this issue. I am extremely guilty of that here, as well as other times. I have stepped back and looked more closely at myself recently. There is much room for improvement. But, is it the fans we are concerned about here? Seriously, at the games last night, I made it a point to look and was uncertain. Take a poll of the fans with the following question.

Were the officials last night wearing belts?

A. yes
B. no
C. didn't notice
D. What difference does it make?

[Adam]

Originally Posted by just another ref

There is a lot of slack between "being appropriately attired" and "showing up in anything." If I had a partner show up to call varsity games in black jeans, I, too, would be taken aback. Both sides have overstated their positions on this issue. I am extremely guilty of that here, as well as other times. I have stepped back and looked more closely at myself recently. There is much room for improvement. But, is it the fans we are concerned about here? Seriously, at the games last night, I made it a point to look and was uncertain. Take a poll of the fans with the following question.

Were the officials last night wearing belts?

A. yes
B. no
C. didn't notice
D. What difference does it make?

Not relevant. You could also poll them about whether the officials were in proper positions on free throws, throwins, or the jump ball and they wouldn't have a clue.

[BillyMac]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Take a poll of the fans with the following question.

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

Not relevant. You could also poll them about whether the officials were in proper positions on free throws, throwins, or the jump ball and they wouldn't have a clue.

I don't give a rat's derrière about the fans. I care about my partner, first, the kids second, and the coaches, third. There is no fourth.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

There is a lot of slack between "being appropriately attired" and "showing up in anything." If I had a partner show up to call varsity games in black jeans, I, too, would be taken aback. Both sides have overstated their positions on this issue. I am extremely guilty of that here, as well as other times. I have stepped back and looked more closely at myself recently. There is much room for improvement. But, is it the fans we are concerned about here? Seriously, at the games last night, I made it a point to look and was uncertain. Take a poll of the fans with the following question.

Were the officials last night wearing belts?

A. yes
B. no
C. didn't notice
D. What difference does it make?

First of all I do not feel I have overstated anything. I am simply saying that this is a factor in what I may judge an official and what others might. Just like they will look at the fitness of an official and make judgments. If I was working a game and I had a very bad limp and my shirt was hanging out because it did not fit (something I have seen this year) people observing (officials, coaches, administrators and fans) might make judgments about your officiating. And if it is the right people they may not give you a second chance to make the right impression. And yes it can if that person is an evaluator, a fellow official (in my area we can rate other officials) or a coach that might say who he likes and why. It does make a difference too many because it is stated in so many areas that this looks bad. You may not agree, but unless you are the person that makes decisions your opinion is not the one we have to be worried about. Just like to some certain facial hair, tattoos or haircut will matter if they are choosing who they will hire. But as you say no one judges us by anything about our officiating right?

Peace

[just another ref]

Okay, one more question, then I'm done. I went back to the same tournament tonight. Different 3 man crew. One definitely had no belt. One definitely had a belt. The other, I actually still don't know. All 3 were, by my standards at least impeccably dressed. The guy with the belt and the guy that I never could tell about both had their shirts tucked loosely enough that they had little slack hanging down which obscured the belt line the great majority of the time.
Perhaps this was done by design for this purpose, but in any case it was neat, even, and in no way detrimental to the overall appearance. The question is, to those who draw such lines, if the belt is still an unforgivable burden, even when it is this close to invisible.

[zm1283]

FWIW I don't think I've seen anyone in my area with a belt on in four years. I have only seen two or three guys with flat front pants. 99.9 percent of the guys/ladies around here wear pleated, beltless pants.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by just another ref

The question is, to those who draw such lines, if the belt is still an unforgivable burden, even when it is this close to invisible.

I do not recall that anyone said this was a deal breaker or unforgivable. I think most of of said that it tells us something about that official. That is it and that is all. Just like the guy that is overweight and belly is hanging over their pants. It may not tell the entire story, but people will assume they cannot get up and down the floor. And the first time they do not get in position (which is sometimes a perception not a reality) someone seems to comment about that official's weight.

Peace

[bob jenkins]

Originally Posted by just another ref

Okay, one more question, then I'm done.

I hope so. You didn't put a question in your post, so go ahead and ask it. Maybe there was a typo in your last statement.

It seems as though your area doesn't have a de-facto standard on belts. In that case, those with and without belts will generally be viewed the same.

That's not true in many other areas.

It's kind of like the switch from shirts with collars to shirts without. No one officiated better just because they boutght a shirt without a collar. But, after a couple of years, if you saw one official with a collar and one without, your first impression would be that the official without the collar just didn't care about his/her officiating.

[RookieDude]

Originally Posted by bob jenkins

But, after a couple of years, if you saw one official with a collar and one without, your first impression would be that the official without the collar just didn't care about his/her officiating.

...I'm sure you meant WITH...


btw...watched some rookies last night...two belts one beltless...one guy had NO Socks and too little of a shirt, was always untucked...whew!

[VaTerp]

Just ordered a new pair of Sansabelts from Between the Lines and the inside pockets are white and the buttons are brown/cream colored.

I'm at work now but I'm pretty sure my other Sansabelts and Smitty's have black inside pockets and black buttons. Am I crazy?

[Rich]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

Just ordered a new pair of Sansabelts from Between the Lines and the inside pockets are white and the buttons are brown/cream colored.

I'm at work now but I'm pretty sure my other Sansabelts and Smitty's have black inside pockets and black buttons. Am I crazy?

My new Smitty pants have white pockets, too, albeit with a black opening so that it's not possible (unless they fit very poorly) to see the white pocket.

I'm guessing those are the proper pants, although I can't understand how hard it would be to use black everywhere.

[JRutledge]

Originally Posted by VaTerp

Just ordered a new pair of Sansabelts from Between the Lines and the inside pockets are white and the buttons are brown/cream colored.

I'm at work now but I'm pretty sure my other Sansabelts and Smitty's have black inside pockets and black buttons. Am I crazy?

I do not know of a single pair of pants that I have that do not have white pockets or a brown/cream color button.

Peace