Travel? Loss of Possession?

[rwest]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

If you think it was a fumble, no violation.
If you think it was a try for goal, no violation.
If you think he purposefully let it go and grabbed it, travel.

Note, a defensive touch is not required for the first two.

For it to be travel, he would have to drop the ball to the floor and then be the first to touch it, wouldn't he?

[CDurham]

Originally Posted by rwest

For it to be travel, he would have to drop the ball to the floor and then be the first to touch it, wouldn't he?

IMO the last has to do with intentionally. A legal fumble has to be unintentionally dropping the ball or it slipping for grasp. So therefore A1 never lost control legally of the ball resulting in a travel if he came back down to the floor.

[rwest]

Originally Posted by CDurham

IMO the last has to do with intentionally. A legal fumble has to be unintentionally dropping the ball or it slipping for grasp. So therefore A1 never lost control legally of the ball resulting in a travel if he came back down to the floor.

There is a case play that is partially on point. I don't have my book to give you the number, but it goes something like this. A1 goes up to shoot and seeing that his shot will be blocked drops the ball. The ball hits the floor. The ruling is a travel if he is the first to touch the ball. I see the OP as being similar. The OP doesn't say the ball touched the floor and that he was the first to touch it. If so, then I would agree with the travel call. But if he lost possession intentionally and regained possession in the air and the ball didn't touch the floor, I've got nothing.

[Indianaref]

Originally Posted by rwest

There is a case play that is partially on point. I don't have my book to give you the number, but it goes something like this. A1 goes up to shoot and seeing that his shot will be blocked drops the ball. The ball hits the floor. The ruling is a travel if he is the first to touch the ball. I see the OP as being similar. The OP doesn't say the ball touched the floor and that he was the first to touch it. If so, then I would agree with the travel call. But if he lost possession intentionally and regained possession in the air and the ball didn't touch the floor, I've got nothing.

You mean unintentionally, like in fumble.

[rwest]

Originally Posted by Indianaref

You mean unintentionally, like in fumble.

There is no rule support that I know of that says a player can't INTENTIONALLY lose control of the ball while in the air. The case play that I sited above says its only a violation if the ball touches the floor and the player is the first too touch it. Again the case play isn't a 100% similar to the OP but it is close enough in my mind to give us some guidance. If the player intentionally loses control but regains it before he and the ball touches the floor I still have nothing.

[CDurham]

Originally Posted by rwest

There is no rule support that I know of that says a player can't INTENTIONALLY lose control of the ball while in the air. The case play that I sited above says its only a violation if the ball touches the floor and the player is the first too touch it. Again the case play isn't a 100% similar to the OP but it is close enough in my mind to give us some guidance. If the player intentionally loses control but regains it before he and the ball touches the floor I still have nothing.

I see your point now I think. Your saying, in my words: A1 jumps into the air but intentionally for whatever reason loses the ball or lets go of the ball. He then recovers it and lands. Is this correct?

[rwest]

Originally Posted by CDurham

I see your point now I think. Your saying, in my words: A1 jumps into the air but intentionally for whatever reason loses the ball or lets go of the ball. He then recovers it and lands. Is this correct?

You are correct.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by rwest

There is a case play that is partially on point. I don't have my book to give you the number, but it goes something like this. A1 goes up to shoot and seeing that his shot will be blocked drops the ball. The ball hits the floor. The ruling is a travel if he is the first to touch the ball. I see the OP as being similar. The OP doesn't say the ball touched the floor and that he was the first to touch it. If so, then I would agree with the travel call. But if he lost possession intentionally and regained possession in the air and the ball didn't touch the floor, I've got nothing.

They're travels for different reasons. In the case play, it's a travel for lifting the pivot foot before starting a dribble.

In the OP (assuming purposeful release) it's a travel for jumping and returning to the floor with the ball.

It could have been considered an illegal dribble under the old case play, but the case play for the player throwing the ball in the air and moving before catching it (no bounce) declares it a travel now.

[rwest]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

They're travels for different reasons. In the case play, it's a travel for lifting the pivot foot before starting a dribble.

In the OP (assuming purposeful release) it's a travel for jumping and returning to the floor with the ball.

It could have been considered an illegal dribble under the old case play, but the case play for the player throwing the ball in the air and moving before catching it (no bounce) declares it a travel now.

SUppose this happend on a jump stop. The dribble ended when the player gathered the ball. He then jumps off one foot. He loses control momentarily and regains it before he comes down on both feet. This is not a travel.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by rwest

SUppose this happend on a jump stop. The dribble ended when the player gathered the ball. He then jumps off one foot. He loses control momentarily and regains it before he comes down on both feet. This is not a travel.

Look at it this way, if the play would have been legal without the momentary release of the ball, it's legal.

If it would have been illegal without the momentary release of the ball, it's still illegal.

This all assumes intentional release, a fumble is a different animal of course.

[Indianaref]

Originally Posted by rwest

SUppose this happend on a jump stop. The dribble ended when the player gathered the ball. He then jumps off one foot (pivot). He loses control momentarily and regains it before he comes down on both feet (simultaneously). This is not a travel.

Correct, as described this is a legal jump stop regardless of the fumble.

[Adam]

Originally Posted by rwest

SUppose this happend on a jump stop. The dribble ended when the player gathered the ball. He then jumps off one foot. He loses control momentarily and regains it before he comes down on both feet. This is not a travel.

The case play here is 4.44.3D, which when read in concert with 4.44.3A tells you it's a travel if the player jumps to shoot, intentionally releases the ball, then catches it before it hits the floor. Whether he lands before the ball is caught is irrelevant, also.

[johnsonboys03]

I absolutely agree with that! I would think that fumbling the ball and landing with out the ball hitting the floor would be the same travell call

[rwest]

Originally Posted by Snaqwells

The case play here is 4.44.3D, which when read in concert with 4.44.3A tells you it's a travel if the player jumps to shoot, intentionally releases the ball, then catches it before it hits the floor. Whether he lands before the ball is caught is irrelevant, also.

Doesn't the case play have the ball fall to floor and then he is the first to touch it? Also, this is only if he jumps for a pass or an attempt. What if he is jumping off of one foot to begin a jump stop? He is not attempting a shot or a pass. The rule is clear that you can't lift your pivot foot and return it to the floor before releasing the ball on a pass or try, but the rule is also clear that you can jump off of one foot and land with both feet simultaneously and not be a travel.

[CDurham]

Originally Posted by rwest

There is a case play that is partially on point. I don't have my book to give you the number, but it goes something like this. A1 goes up to shoot and seeing that his shot will be blocked drops the ball. The ball hits the floor. The ruling is a travel if he is the first to touch the ball. I see the OP as being similar. The OP doesn't say the ball touched the floor and that he was the first to touch it. If so, then I would agree with the travel call. But if he lost possession intentionally and regained possession in the air and the ball didn't touch the floor, I've got nothing.

The case play is 4.44.3 A. This has to do with dropping the ball to the floor. In this case the ball was dropped to the floor while a player was in the air and they were the first to touch it after it hit the floor which constituted a dribble. And you cant have a dribble with the pivot foot off the floor.

My play: the player never dropped the ball to the floor. He simply came back down with the ball after the fumble while he was mid air.